Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register. May 25, 2013, 8:22am
LymeBuster Chat
Welcome to Lymebuster Chat !
Currently we are allowing Open Viewing but those who wish to post here will still need to register. We strive to keep this a peaceful and safe place for everyone and ask for your cooperation toward this achievement.
register.
Login using your social network or forum account:
We have found that most AOL users are not able to receive their activation code and will need to register with an alternate email address such as Yahoo, GMail, Hotmail, etc.
Given the success I've had getting Fenben, I started wondering if I could get other pet-meds for my own consumption. In particular, I have a doctor's prescription for biltricide/praziquantel but my insurance won't cover it (because there's no medical literature to justify its use) and it's very expensive out of pocket. The animal equivalent seems a lot cheaper. Comments??
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #1 on Aug 5, 2006, 1:55am »
Has anyone ever tried mange medicine for dogs? Happy Jack sells some. They have ointment & spray. One of my dogs had it one time. Its basically mites that get in the hair follicle & burrows in the skin. It also gives the dog a 'thicker' skin over that area. This helped a lot.
Anthelminthic with activity against all nematodes and Taenia cestodes. ----- ----- cut&paste ------ -----
I'm reading about people taking the "dog dose" of Fenben. I'm worried that this is too much (50mg/Kg being larger than the maximum 45mg/Kg dosage at which mice end up having toxicity reactions to Fenbendazole). Until someone comes up with numbers indicating that humans "clear" fenbendazole from their system at the same accelerated (high metabolism?) rate found in dogs/cats, I would worry that people doing "dog dose" fenben are causing themselves potential damage.
What kind of damage? http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v36je04.htm gives some examples from animal studies (the same kind of studies which would be used to justify toxicity and teratogenicity in pharmaceutical products):
There were no increase in tumour incidence in a 2-year carcinogenicity study in mice with doses of fenbendazole up to 405 mg/kg bw/day (Goldenthal, 1980; Annex 1, reference 98).
A lifetime toxicity/carcinogenicity study (including an in utero phase) of fenbendazole in Charles River CD rats used the F1 generation of pups that had been exposed to the same dose levels in utero. Fenbendazole was fed in the diet at dose levels of 0, 5, 15, 45 or 135 mg/kg bw/day. In utero exposure to 45 mg/kg bw/day and 135 mg/kg bw/day caused severe toxicity in the pups characterized by decreased body weights, diarrhoea, bloated stomachs, icterus and alopecia. F1 pups exposed to 135 mg/kg bw/day had 33% decreased body weights as compared to controls, while pups exposed to 45 mg/kg bw/day were 15% below controls. There was also increased mortality, 18% of pups exposed to 135 mg/kg bw/day and 14% of the pups exposed to 45 mg/kg bw/day died by day 21 of age as compared to 6% in the controls. These data suggest that pups at 45 and 135 mg/kg bw/day had been dosed above the MTD prior to the start of the lifetime study. This toxicity and increased neonatal mortality severely limit the conclusions that can be drawn from this study.
The histopathological changes observed in the liver of treated animals were reported as hepatocellular hypertrophy, vacuolation and bile duct proliferation in the 15, 45 and 135 mg/kg bw/day groups, hepatocellular hyperplasia and biliary cysts in the 45 and 135 mg/kg bw/day groups, and hepatocellular adenomas and carcinomas in the
135 mg/kg bw/day group. A group of independent pathologists reviewed the histopathologic findings and concluded that fenbendazole treatment did not result in an increased incidence of hepatocellular neoplasms (Goldenthal, 1981; Lewis, 1982; Brown, 1982; Annex 1, reference 98).
2.1.2.2 Special studies on genotoxicity
The results of additional genotoxicity studies on fenbendazole are given in Table 1. Table 1. Results of genotoxicity studies on fenbendazole
Test system Test object Concentration Results Reference
Forward mutation Mouse up to 100 µg/ml Negative Den Boer & assay1 lymphoma Horn, 1986
1 Both with and without rat liver S9. Fenbendazole was assayed in L5178Y TK+/- mouse lymphoma cells using doses ranging from 2.5 to 10 µg/ml without activation and from 4.0 to 10 µg/ml with metabolic activation. The observed toxicity ranged from low to moderate. The substance showed steep toxicity so that treatment in the range of 10 to 20% relative growth was not possible. All of the treatment, both with and without metabolic activation, induced mutation frequencies that were below the minimum criterion of mutagenesis. The authors concluded that fenbendazole was not mutagenic in the mouse lymphoma assay (Den Boer & Horn, 1986). However, the test concentrations used in this study were considerably lower than those used in the previous study when concentrations up to 62 µg/ml were tested (Cifone & Myhr, 1983).
In the opinion of independent experts, a DNA binding study would not result in further clarification of the clastogenic effects of fenbendazole in vitro on V79 cells, but would merely show whether there might be an additional potential for point mutations (letter from professor C. Schlatter, Institute for Toxicology, Zurich, Switzerland, to Dr Müller, Hoechst AG, 1991; submitted to WHO by Hoechst AG, Frankfurt, Germany).
Genotoxicity studies on all essential genetic endpoints gave negative results. Clastogenic effects of benzimidazoles in vitro are related to the inhibition of tubulin formation. In vivo assays for binding to DNA in liver following the oral administration of fenbendazole have not been performed.
In an expert review on the toxicology of fenbendazole, the authors concluded that it showed no mutagenic, genotoxic or carcinogenic potential and that sufficient data were available to establish an ADI for fenbendazole residues in animal-derived food (Bolt & Gansevendt, 1991). ---------------------------------
Fenbendazole Fenbendazole is another broad-spectrum anthelmintic usually marketed under the trade name Panacur or Safe-Guard. Fenbendazole anthelmintic preparations are designed as drenches, pastes, pellets, granules, and salt mixes carrying oral administration approval for cattle, horses, or hogs. It is not approved for use in sheep but is safe, and is commonly used for sheep in other countries. Fenbendazole also has a wide margin of safety, is safe for pregnant ewes, and treats all of the major intestinal parasites that typically infect Midwestern sheep. It is effective against the common adult and larval forms of stomach, intestinal and lung worms of sheep. It is also effective against tapeworm segments and heads but has no effect 7 on external parasites or nasal bots. Fenbendazole has minimal effects on liver flukes. Since fenbendazole preparations are not approved for use in sheep or for use in lactating cattle, no official milk withdrawal time is listed. Slaughter withdrawal time for cattle, however, is 8 days following administration of the drug. Fenbendazole drench is marketed as a 10% suspension (100 mg/ml) of fenbendazole. The drench is labeled for use in horses or cattle. Some common trade names include 10% Panacur Suspension (Horse), 10% Panacur Suspension (Cattle) or Safe-Guard 10% Cattle Dewormer. While labeled dosing directions for horses and cattle may be different, the product concentration (100 mg/ml) is the same. Because fenbendazole dosing is dependent upon the parasites that are targeted, the cattle and horse products list two different doses. Approved cattle and horse doses are labeled at either 5 mg or 10 mg of fenbendazole/kg of body weight. These doses represent either 2.5 ml of the 10% solution per 100 lbs. of body weight (the 5-mg/kg dose) or the higher dose of 5 ml of the 10% solution per 100 lbs. of body weight (the 10-mg/kg dose). Sheep producers commonly use the 2.5 ml of 10% fenbendazole solution/100 lbs. of body weight dose for treating most common parasites found in sheep and increase the dose to 5 ml/100 lbs. to increase the effectiveness on tapeworms, lungworms, and larval stages of various parasites. Cost for treating a 150-lb. sheep would be roughly $0.45 to $0.90 per animal (dose dependent). ----- ----- cut&paste ------ -----
Joined: Jul 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,466 Location: Corona del Mar, CA
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #4 on Aug 5, 2006, 1:36pm »
It turns out that dog/cat praziquantel (available from farnam or agrilabs) is not at all cost-effective (other than it's availability w/o prescription for those who've had to give up on the so-called "doctors"). I have a scrip for Praziquantel from my Lyme Dz Dr. so I think the costco pharmacy price (at the 600mg TID x 2 months human dosing) will be less than the "pet" price.
However, it appears that praziquantel is now on the market for much less money as the result of 3rd world parasite eradication programs where the drug price needed to be far lower for "global public health reasons." The fortunate beneficiaries of this pricing appear to be "fancy fish breeders" for which it appears there's little regulation of antibiotics, antifungals and antiparasitics. The dog/cat praziquantel pills still retain the outrageously high pricing of praziquantel's non-generic version -- Biltricide.
Praziquantel ( “Prazi” ) is the hands-down best treatment for flukes. ‘Prazi’ is by far the most gentle, yet effective treatment for flukes available to our hobby. The real bonus with ‘Prazi’ is that when you treat for flukes it also rids the fish of any internal parasites or worms.
* One treatment, not two * No water changes needed * Safe for all species of non food fish including Orfe, Goldfish and Rudd. * No filter or reef bio-filter effects * Deworms cestodes, anasakis, capillaria and other intestinal parasites as well!
‘Prazi’ is also a dewormer for humans and dogs and cats. ‘Prazi’ is so gentle that children as young as 5 years old can take the drug. For dogs and cats it is sold as “Droncit”, a dewormer pill.
‘Prazi’ is extremely effective for the treatment of external flukes, liver flukes, internal parasites and internal worms in koi, goldfish and tropical fish. ‘Prazi’ is a one time treatment and because it is so gentle, it does NOT require any water changes after treatment and you do NOT need to bypass your biofilter. Prazi also will work with any amount of salt in the pond and it is not water temperature dependant.
It is also 100% ‘legal’ unlike some of the grey market compounds. ‘Prazi’ has been sought after for years as the fluke treatment of choice but has been unavailable in our hobby due to expense, until NOW.
As a preventative, we recommend treating once a year in early Spring.
Prazi is available in 50 gram bottles (Treats 5,110 gallons) and 100 gram bottles (treats 10,220 gallons).
Pros Safe, one dose, no water changes, very effective, and no reef or filter effects!
Cons Slightly more expensive that the more common, more dangerous preparations which require multiple doses, water changes, or which may be hazardous to Discus, Goldfish, Catfish etc..
Joined: Jul 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,466 Location: Corona del Mar, CA
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #5 on Aug 5, 2006, 1:57pm »
Regarding the mange medicine -- it appears to be sulfur plus some oils. There's stuff like that for humans too: "Pomada D'Azufre" available from mexican tiendas in So-Cal and "ethnic" section of mega-drugstores. More expensive, but with tea-tree and aloe, sold at major health/homeopathic/naturopathic stores http://www.pacifichealth.com/cgi-local/s....tml/product=803
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 1,916 Location: Southwest Missouri
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #6 on Aug 5, 2006, 2:06pm »
Hey, I snorted some aquarium medicine one time, it said for "slime" and I snorted for a sinus infection and worked great!!! (I know Dog, I'm Crazy) That's what happens when you don't have health insurance. Here's what makes me mad, I got insurance on my piece of crap-truck, but not on my body. Now Dog, that's crazy!!!!
Joined: Apr 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 19 Location: Virginia
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #7 on Aug 5, 2006, 4:20pm »
Hi Everyone, I haven't posted in a long time, but I've probably tried every product available for animals. You can get generic Septra ( this is actually the drug made for humans by Forte- relabeled) - Sulfa/Trimethaprim (they call it Bird-Sulfa) from Thomas Labs - http://www.thomasvetdrug.com . They also have ketoconazole, a fungicide (as Fish Fungus). Don't tell anyone, but quite a few vet supply companys re-label and sell antibiotics as fish or bird meds for this very reason, they are legally sold without a prescription for fish and birds. I'm pretty sure all the doxycycline and flagyl they sell ain't going into the aquarium. If you are good at calculating dosages, I think all dewormers are available. I had good results in the beginning with ivermectin, but as with everything else, it isn't the final answer; but Revivalanimal.com has great prices for it. The most effective miticide is amtraz (VERY potent) did not work on Morg/fibers, but it is THE tick killer. The animal topicals that do seem effective are fungicidal products, with the active ingredient being Benzalkonium Chloride. They include fungisan, allercaine, myosan (cream). Ben. chloride is also in bactine, lanacane, hospital hand wipes and disinfectants. The most cost effective way to buy it is in pool fungicide- a quart bottle converted into fungisan or bactine ratios makes a hundred or so gallons for 10.99. There is a liquid called DERMx which I've had good results with, but does not have the ingredients listed, but I suspect B.C. in some form. The other effective fungicide is iodine in it's many forms, which can be bought by the gallon from vet suppliers. Godog- you aren't too far off, copper sulfate, an algaecide for pools and aquariums, works also, but it's hell on skin so I use it on inanimate objects. (not my husband) I won't list the thousands of things I've tried with little or no benefit. PoodleLady
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 1,916 Location: Southwest Missouri
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #8 on Aug 5, 2006, 9:13pm »
You know, I've wondered about the mange thing. There is some bads** mange going around. Especially SouthTexas, I used to see these poor animals, just covered, every inch of their skin with mange. And then, there were some "mystery animals" caught and killed and everyone was wondering what they were, but I think they were just coyotes, covered in that killler mange. But people didn't know if they were even canines or not. So, there is definately some bad parasites going around. Poodlelady, you're husband would probably make a good doorstop. haha Years ago this guy told me that he loved pickles and would always drink the pickle juice and the ticks, when he found them on himself, would already be dead. Worth a try, I'm thinking. I mean, there's just gotta be something to kill this stuff. I am just so sick of it! But actually, I'm feeling pretty good, but still geting worms out of my buttskin, but the big lesions are better. I think I've made some good headway with the worst lesion, but seem to be getting alot of worms out of the skin, but maybe they have to come out now, what with the wormer and all. It's so hard to tell. I don't know. But I do feel better. Not as tired and foggy. In fact, I feel pretty downright froggy. And pretty happy. But I sure would like to clear up the skin on my butt. I'm single, I would like to date and have sex, dammit, but no way, with this scarylooking booty of mine. In fact, one of my male friends had a nightmare and I was in it and showed him my butt. That was the nightmare. Sucks to be me.
Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Joined: Apr 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 1,756 Location: CO.
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #10 on Aug 5, 2006, 10:38pm »
An after thought--I keep seeing fish and aquariums come up---I had one--gave it up because it was hard to maintain---Hmmm--wonder if I was exposed to somethig there. I would not be suprised at all.
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 1,916 Location: Southwest Missouri
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #11 on Aug 5, 2006, 10:59pm »
Yeah, I probably blabbed too much info there. Sorry guys. But seriously, this thing is just so life-altering. I feel like a secret-leper. To look at me, you wouldn't know. All my lesions are where no one can see. I feel this is kind of a problem, as I have a hard time convincing my friends and family that I have something really wrong. I think mine started when I lived next door to a catlady and she had hundreds of diseased animals, feline aids, feline leukemia and no telling what else. She had dead cats everywhere, even in her house and dead cats floating in her tub. (we wondered if she was marinating them) and one room had over a foot of catlitter on the floor!!!! It's a long story, but it was BAD! Couldn't get the city to do anything, I wish I could sue the city now, as I think thats where it started.
Hmm - This doesn't sound right to me - 4 0z. bottle of less than 5% Paraziquantal by weight will treat more water than a 100g bottle of 100% Praziquantal (3.5 oz. total weight)? Both bottles seem to indicate that they contain 2.5mg/L of medication once dissolved in tank water but this does not work out as far as the other information... because the directions are entirely different for both meds.
If they are actually both at a concentration of 2.5ppm Praziquantal dissolved per instructions then the liquid product would not have as effective a treatment becasue it does not dose as frequently, thereby not maintaining the concentration necessary to discharge flukes. The Hikari product recommends:
QUOTE A single treatment lasting 5-7 days is normally sufficient. Repeat as necessary, but no more than once every 3 to 5 days.
Whereas, the powder product of same concentration is more potent as it is recommended by AquaScience to dose:
QUOTE Redose the water on a daily basis with partial water changes before each redosing. Treat for 5-7 days .
If one followed the dosing of the Hikari liqiud, the flukes might not disappear (in my experience) but by following the powdered AquaScience dosing while using the liqiud Hikari, it might work. It would be interesting to test the two... using the same dosing regime - to see if one is indeed more effective than the other...
I have used the powder successfully and I don't mind shaking it. Generally, the shelf life of a liquid solution will be shorter and may deteriorate more quickly than a safely stored powder. There is an expiration date on the powder (I do not know about the liqiud) as well as a code date - probably indicating when it was made and or what batch. So, I know if the product is effective as a medication any longer. I will never know how long the liquid has been on the pet store shelf... I perfectly happy with the tried and true powder - and for those who prefer to try liquid - here's the rest of the directions :
QUOTE Shake vigorously before use.
This post has been edited by Graham: Aug 29 2005, 01:21 AM ---- ---- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Joined: Jul 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,466 Location: Corona del Mar, CA
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #13 on Aug 11, 2006, 2:08pm »
In googling for information on length of treatment with fenbendazole (3 days ain't enuf) I came across the following for bayer drontal plus, which contains febantel, which is metabolized into fenbendazole, according to another article I read ( http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/191503.htm )
Note that this article presumes "dog dosing" and the treatment prescribed is approx 1 month of fenbendazole at 50mg/kg.
Drontal Plus, used at the recommended dose, is not effective against somatic larvae of nematodes in pregnant bitches. Currently, it is admitted that only Albendazole, Fenbendazole (Panacur®) and Oxfendazole (Synanthic®, Dolthene®) can be effective against somatic larvae of roundworms (Toxocara canis and possibly Ancylostoma caninum).Nevertheless, it has to be stressed that this claim requires special administration protocols with following characteristics:
1. Higher doses than the standard recommended dose (e.g. Fenbendazole: 50 mg/kg daily from day 45-50 of pregnancy to day 12-18 after birth - Duwel et al 1978). 2. A longer treatment duration than the standard treatment (e.g. above mentioned Fenbendazole treatment). Mebendazole (Telmin®) and Flubendazole (Flubenol®) are ineffective against somatic larvae of roundworm (Petrich and Stoye 1981, Bosse and Stoye 1981).
Furthermore, there are some problems with these administration protocols:
1. They are not officialy licenced. 2. The toxicological risk induced by the use of these compounds at a high dose and during a long period has not been specifically assessed and therefore, the safety of such protocols cannot be guaranteed. 3. The treatment is not very convenient for the pet owner (daily administration of the wormer during several weeks...). 4. The cost of such a treatment is tremendously high compared to a Drontal single dose treatment.
References:
* Duwel D & Strasse H - 1978 - Versuche zur Geburt helminther-freier Hundewelpendurch Fenbendazol- Behandlung. Deutsche Tierärztliche Wochenschrift. Experimental Report. * Bosse M & Stoye M - 1981- Zur Wirkung Verschiedener Benzimidazolcarbamat auf somatische Larven von Ancylostoma caninum and Toxocara canis. Zentralblatt Veterinärmedizin B 28: 265-279. * Petrich & Stoye M - 1981- Zur Wirkung Verschiedener Benzimidazolcarbamat auf somatische Larven von Ancylostoma caninum and Toxocara canis. Zentralblatt Veterinärmedizin B 28: 292-300. ...
Hmmm... length of pregnancy in dogs is 64-66 days "day 45-50 of pregnancy to day 12-18 after birth" means treatment ranging from a minumum of (64-50)+12=14+12=26 to a maximum of (66-45)+18=21+18=39 days.
Joined: Jul 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,466 Location: Corona del Mar, CA
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #14 on Aug 11, 2006, 2:29pm »
More on fenben dosing for larval infestations (note this uses "sheep dosing" which is less than "dog dosing"). Note that the doses of fenbendazole -- 25 mg/Kg -- are significantly higher than the 5mg/Kg(standard) 10mg/Kg (bots/etc) dosing for sheep....
... Group1: Albendazole with dosage 25 mg kgG1 treated for the duration six days. Group2: Praziquantel with dosage 100 mg kgG1 treated for the duration seven days. Group3: Fenbendazole with dosage 25 mg kgG1 treated for the duration eight days. Group4: BY fenbendazole with dosage 0.5 for each affected sheep + praziquantel with dosage 100mg kgG1 treated six times by interval of 20 days. ... ... There was agreement that albendazole, fenbendazole and praziquantel are effective antiparasitic agents, destroying most viable cysts and it may be used as regular treatment for larval stage of tapeworm[7,8]. As demonstrated by experiments in animals, albendazole and praziquantel are effective antiparasitic drugs against cystic larval stage. Initial studies with praziquantel noted that low doses had some effect against cysts and doses as high as 50 to 75 mg kgG1 dayG1 were well tolerated. In 1977 Bankov and in1982 Verster succeeded for the first time in treating coenuriasis in sheep with praziquantel[8]. The formation of cysts in the brain was prevented by chemotherapy with 50 mg kgG1 b.w. No dose ranging studies were performed with albendazole and fenbendazole in coenurosis. There is limited experience with higher doses of both drugs. There has been concern about the safety of albendazole in sheep and goats. The present study demonstrated the high efficacy of albendazole given at a dose of albendazole has better penetration into cerebrospinal fluid and because of this it's effect increase[9] however, seems to respond better to a treatment with albendazole than to praziquantel and fenbendazole. Also Present results indicate the efficacy of the coadministration of fenbendazole plus praziquantel combination agaist coenurosis has very useful effects.In order to preserve the full potential of praziquantel it is recommended that administration of the drug be used in full dose and in combination with benzimidazole broadspectrum anthelmintics such as fenbendazole in full dose. In all of treatment group, Between the second and fifth days of antiparasitic therapy, there was usually an diminution of neurological symptoms. Three techniques have been suggested for reducing the development ofresistance and more effects: 1) Use a full dose of dewormer whenever treatment is done, 2) Added dosing frequency by increasing stocking rates or use doseand- move. 3) Treat all new introductions with the best products available and perhaps with a double dose.Thus chemotherapeutic approach using drugs like albendazole, praziquantel,and fenbendazole may have been tried. Finally, three important problems including drug prescription period,recovery time and therapeutic certainity being that in this study (Table 1) was showed therapeutic effects of albendazole and composed (fenbendazole+praziquantel) was crucial, but therapeutic effects of both recentlly drugs fenbendazole and Beetween two successfully method of therapy above, due to short duration of coenurosis treatment period with albendazole is preferred. So can be concluded that using Antihelminthic agents Adult Dose for treatment of coenurosis, this can result successfully. Also according to this investigation increasing of treatment period, can arrive succesfully results and nowadays the medicament is administered daily without interruption. ...
Joined: May 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 225 Location: New Jersey
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #15 on Aug 12, 2006, 12:01am »
Quote:
An after thought--I keep seeing fish and aquariums come up---I had one--gave it up because it was hard to maintain---Hmmm--wonder if I was exposed to somethig there. I would not be suprised at all.
I remember when my fibers first became noticeable....small puffs of fibers...reminicent of the ich that fish get. My fiber production is way down since being on the toxoplasmosis protocol and the thiabendazole.
Joined: May 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 225 Location: New Jersey
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #16 on Aug 12, 2006, 12:25am »
Quote:
Yeah, I probably blabbed too much info there. Sorry guys. But seriously, this thing is just so life-altering. I feel like a secret-leper. To look at me, you wouldn't know. All my lesions are where no one can see. I feel this is kind of a problem, as I have a hard time convincing my friends and family that I have something really wrong. I think mine started when I lived next door to a catlady and she had hundreds of diseased animals, feline aids, feline leukemia and no telling what else. She had dead cats everywhere, even in her house and dead cats floating in her tub. (we wondered if she was marinating them) and one room had over a foot of catlitter on the floor!!!! It's a long story, but it was BAD! Couldn't get the city to do anything, I wish I could sue the city now, as I think thats where it started.
All this fenben info got me to thinkin....
On my lyme titers band 41....three positives. I looked this up. Always a flagella...hence feeling that familiar movement. So borrelia have flagella. So do protists. The toxoplasmosis is a protist if Im not mistaken. Thiabendazole is a pariticide and fungaside.
So I am full of flagella....am taking Sulfa drugs, diaprim and plaquenil. A few times a week flagyl. Now for some... flagyl does nothing or makes them sick, for me its like a miracle and has never stopped working.
The thing is this before I even went to Dr M...I was self treating for lyme as I had become sure I had it. at least a yr or more. So what flagella am I full of if not just the Lyme spirochete (spelling)?
Now remember I had bookoo parasites and plenty of bacteria...but it does make sense. Can't cats and such transmit toxo.
This toxo treatment is having a major effect. Still on antiparasitics but I feel different. I really didnt think it was doing much...but the last few weeks or so...
Well lets just say, so far so good. Only time will tell.
I will keep you guys updated....I never say Im on the something but I think Im on to my something.
« Last Edit: Aug 12, 2006, 12:41am by Taratula38 »
Joined: Jun 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 1,916 Location: Southwest Missouri
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #17 on Aug 12, 2006, 8:45am »
Tarantula, I hope you're on to something. No kidding, though. It's so cool to be able to trade info here. I sure hope the board doesn't get shut down. Anyway, I have been trying something, it is Parasite Clear, Tank Buddies it says on the box. For aquariums. But it has praziquantel, dilubenenzaron, metronidazole and acriflavine. So, I just mixed it with bottled water and using it as a rinse for my lesions, as I'm out of fenben. It is working good, helping dry them up, doesn't hurt. And I have been feeling tired and achey like I did on fenben, so I must be herxing, so it must be doing something to them they don't like. I am going to order more fenben and then take it orally and use this stuff as a rinse and soak. It was 2 something for a box of 8 tabs. Each tab does 10 gallons of water. But I just mixed it in a pickle jar, not ten gallons. I shoulda been a doctor!
Joined: Jul 2006 Gender: Male Posts: 1,466 Location: Corona del Mar, CA
Re: Pet meds for human morgies? « Reply #18 on Aug 12, 2006, 10:20am »
I wonder if the ruminant dose (cows, sheep, etc) of fenbendazole is lower than dogs/cats/chickens because ruminants have a different stomach and this whole rumen thing... In other words they don't need as much because they hold on to the drug in their gi tract for longer, therefore allowing better absorbtion. It seems that fenben isn't that well absorbed so perhaps the dog dose of fenben is gauged towards how long something spends in the dogs inside before becoming feces.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/191503.htm ... With a few exceptions, eg, albendazole, oxfendazole, and triclabendazole, only limited amounts of any of the benzimidazoles are absorbed from the GI tract of the host. The limited absorption is probably related to the poor water solubility of these drugs. The little absorption that occurs is generally rapid, 2-7 hr after dosing with flubendazole and 6-30 hr after dosing with albendazole, fenbendazole, and oxfendazole, depending on the species. Many of the benzimidazoles and their metabolites re-enter the GI tract by passive diffusion, but the biliary route is the most important pathway for secretion and recycling of benzimidazoles to the GI tract. ... In ruminants, the macrocyclic lactones are, like benzimidazoles, most effective if deposited directly into the rumen. A 3- to 4-fold increase in Cmax and AUC of ivermectin after intra-abomasal compared with intraruminal administration has been reported. Significantly, time to maximal concentration of ivermectin was reduced from 23 hr to 4 hr with the former route of delivery.
![[Home]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/home.png "[Home]")
![[New Topics]](http://images.proboards.com/menu/topics.png "[New Topics]")
![[Help]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/help.png "[Help]")
![[Search]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/search.png "[Search]")
![[Login]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/login.png "[Login]")
![[Register]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/register.png "[Register]")
![[Live Chat]](http://images.proboards.com/new/menu/chat.png "[Live Chat]")
![[Search This Thread]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/search2.png "[Search This Thread]")
![[Share Topic]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/share.png "[Share Topic]")
![[Print]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/print.png "[Print]")
Author
![[avatar]](http://morgellonswiki.info/img/090226-psychedelic-fish-picture_big-ap.jpg "[avatar]")
![[homepage]](http://images.proboards.com/new/buttons/www_sm.png "[homepage]")
)
Logged
![[avatar]](http://www.lymebusters.com/kerrycross.jpg "[avatar]")
![[avatar]](http://www.dogsinstyle.com/images/168_stinky.JPG "[avatar]")
![[yim]](http://images.proboards.com/new/yim.png "[yim]")
:
![[image]](http://www.picturetrunk.com/uploads/1d33a8e929.jpg "[image]")