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Topic: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's theory (Read 1,043 times)
wannbe scientist Guest
Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's theory « Thread Started on Oct 26, 2005, 9:58am »
This is not to steal Chem G's thunder, but i wanted to stream line the discussion to somethings.
I read the experiments being conducted by Dr. Randy Wymore. They basically looked in skin scrapings from morgellons patients for DNA from collembola and S. maltophilia and so far havent found any.
This contridicts in some way with the oklahoma study, which found through verification of the morphology of these bugs to be collembola.
There could be some plausable reasons why no collembola was found in Wymores experiement as he already mentioned. One was that there is just no collembola DNA present. I dont believe the letter mentioned exactly from what part of the body the skin scraping was taken from in the PCR experiment. Maybe not on the scalp, as the oklahoma study used, but from the forearm for example?
One not mentioned by Wymore is possiblity that infact what the entomologist actually saw was NOT collembola, but something morphologically similar. Perhpas, a nematode as Chem G proposes??
Im curious if the good people from oklahoma might still have skin samples of these microscopic images. Perhaps they too could conduct a PCR test to see if collembola DNA indeed amplifies or perhaps provide samples to the morgellons foundation. Im not sure why they didnt verify there visual confirmation with DNA confimation at the time the study was conducted.
On the otherhand, who am i to doubt trained entomologists??
Perhaps PCRing for a DNA sequence which defines (unique) the phylum nematoda is the next experiment to be conducted. And through the process of elimination we will find out what is really "bugging" us.
One constructive critisism to Chem G theory is that, it merely trades one parasite for another. ie nematode instead of collembola. Both the theories are compatible with underlying fungal infections and possiblity that one parasite may recruit other types of parasites. These leads to the possiblity that each individual may be predominately infected with a different organism.
But then why did the oklahoma study say that 18/20 patients had morphologically similar bugs (collembola) Once again...back to chem G theory, maybe the nematodes morphoplogically are similar to collembola??? Im not an entomologist so I can only speculate.(or maybe i shouldnt at all)
I guess we will have to wait and see on the next experiments! This is like a soap opera from hell!
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/Oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #1 on Oct 26, 2005, 10:35am »
It's fibers, I've seen them make themselves look like insects but when I tease the insect apart it's always fibers. DNA found will be our DNA, unless they get the stinger fiber and it is a escape artist, I think they steal our DNA and use us to make themselves.
And they for sure use DNA of other creatures, insects (springtails) any living thing, they will use the DNA.
When they study this horror. They must have us there with them. And if they don't get the stinger fiber from the middle of the nest, then all they have is nesting material, cellulose, cotton, yep even plastic, they will use anything. I've had band-aid material pulled into my skin.
The victim has to be sitting right there in the lab so when they get samples the stinger fiber won't get away. I've seen this thing go through glass.
Just look at one you've pulled out of your skin by the tag. See how it lights up and fluoresces. Now keep teasing it and the stinger fiber will come out. Now look at that tissue, looked like a worm before, huh. Now just looks like tissue. The stinger fiber makes it light up, once out no light.
Is it a nematode?, sure looks like one under x400 magnification.
I've had the ant/bee type and the worm that almost looks like a circus dolphin, got red fibers around neck and sucked the black liquid out of the ant/bee thing. Then both appeared to be dead. A few mins. later an explosion in the vial. Clear liquid droplets all over inside vial. Both creatures then looked dried up. Mold set in vial with in 2 days.
Stinger fiber makes it's self look like these insects, creatures, farm animals, it will go on and on.
My question When do they start looking like us?
I'm not educated but I do know what I see.
PPS. The Oka. study found what was left over of the stinger fibers kill. They pull springtail into our bodies and steal the DNA. Leaving only a shell of the insect.
Insects love us now, why? because the stinger fiber puts off a sex or food scent to get the bugs to come onto our bodies for the kill.
Now I have a very sick child covered with fibers. I wash and wash and never get a head of getting them off him. He has stage 4 brain cancer. So what is this horror stealing from my child?
This is bad stuff people. I might not be book smart but I know what my eyes see and the CDC better be very scared for not just all of us but for mankind.
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #2 on Oct 26, 2005, 11:52am »
To Sue L this is so horrible, I pray for you and your son. Your observations are so important There is no reason this is not a popourrie (sp) of vectors in one project. The project being a test. Some areas (I will call sectors because this is so unsubltley distributed in some areas and not in others) are getting signature weird things. I refer to the cubic feather for instance. The only person who mentioned this one so far is figorfly. Today it rained in my sector so, getting ready for work I grabbed my old roommates big black umbrella and went outside and before I opened the umbrella? What do I see? A cubic feather. So obviously not a natural thing but I thought, great a perfect sample I'll keep this one in a jar as proof of this madness. I went inside to get a jar and when I came back the "feather" had collapsed into a mold pattern on the umbrella, circular still with some feathery edges but a flat circular moldy center. Has anyone else discovered one of these signature "bombs" hanging around their environment??
For anyone interested in Wymore's experiments its on the morgellons foundation webpage under updates. Another post a week or so ago has the exact link.
I emailed Dr. Wymore and asked him if he could get samples from the oklahoma study and run a PCR on it. Im waiting for a reply from him
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #5 on Oct 26, 2005, 12:16pm »
Rabbit,
Just this morning, as I was vacuuming, there was something that looked like a spill on the floor. When I put the nozzle at the outer edge, it was totally sucked into the vacuum. It was both freaky and eerie. How could a spill, at least seven inches long just disappear? I haven't found a thread for this, but the "bugs" that come out of me look like tiny fruit flies, or tiny silver fish.
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #6 on Oct 26, 2005, 10:27pm »
This is an email I sent to Dr. Randy Wymore conducting the Morgellon Foundation Research and his reply.
Dr. Wymore,
I read your memo on the experiments so far conducted from the Morgellons webpage. You noted that so far no DNA sequence which defines the order collembola has been amplified by PCR. Yet, 18 out of 20 patients were at least identified morphologically by the entomologists in the Oklahoma study to be collembola.
I was wondering my self why they did not confirm their visual findings with PCR at the time of the study. Do you think it would be constructive if you could get a sample of the skin scrapings they used, assuming they still have some, and conduct a PCR reaction for the cytochrome oxidase DNA ? Or maybe ask them to do it?
Also on a side note, if you could clarify on what part of the body was the skin scrapings you used for the PCR reaction obtained. As I recall, all the skin scrapings in the oklahoma study were from the scalp.
Thanks David
Dear David,
To the best of my understanding, the original samples that led to the collembola paper were all destroyed. As I understand, only the images are left. I do find that problematical.
None of my samples are skin scrapings. The material that I used for PCR has been scabs, dried skin and skin that has been shed for one reason or another. I do not know what part of the body from the affected person the samples came from. At this point I am not yet ready to collect samples from patients in a clinical setting. All of these samples have been submitted by physicians, nurses or forwarded from the Morgellons Research Foundation. I have to do this as part of my human subjects IRB examption. This ensures annonymity of the patient and that the shed material was not harvested in an invasive fashion. All of this is preliminary data to request a human subjects approval. At that time I will be able to meet with patients and have samples collected in a formal controlled manner. I am hoping to have skin biopsies as well as scrapings.
My rationale in using the material at hand is that PCR is very sensitive method of amplifying DNA. Under the best circumstances, it can detect the DNA from 1 single cell. Some reports have suggested that the Collembola are living in the non-healing lesions. If that were the case, it would be almost impossible for the ornganism to not lose some cells (shedding, sloughing, broken body parts, etc.) to the scabs or the shed skin samples. If so, I should be able to amplify a band of the Collembola DNA. Thus far, this has not happened. Does it prove anything? No. On the other hand, since I can just grab some old leaves from my yard, run some water over the leaves and then use a tiny drop of that water for the PCR and amplify the expected Collembola band, it suggest that there is the possibility that Collembola have not been living in or around the lesions from the samples I received. In the forensics department they have shown that a fingerprint on a door has shed enough DNA from a human to allow human DNA amplification, even when there were noobvious skin cells detectable in the fingerprint.
I agree with you that it is surprising that the authors did not use a different technique to confirm their conclusions based on the images. Especially since they had to use image-enhancing methods to come to their conclusions. Unlike RNA, DNA is very stable. If those images really were of Collembola, then in the distorted remains of the samples there were probably 10s of thousand or more copies of the DNA. That would have been an experiment that would have taken less than a week to do in even a not-very-sophisticated lab setting. Many community colleges now have a thermal cycler for their students to do PCR, so it is not even a particularly hi-tech or expensive method. Since they did not use a second method to confirm the Collembola, it is up to them or other researchers to examine this issue in detail. I have no vested interest or 'pet' hypothesis in this other than trying to find out what is really going on in Morgellons disease. That is why I am trying to sytematically go through and eliminate possibilities and then move on until we, or someone else, can convincingly identify the causative agent(s) in Morgellons disease.
By the way, if I am wrong, and the samples do exist, then yes the authors of the Collembola should do the PCR on the samples. If they wish to have someone else do it, then they would have no problem finding a lab. Alternatively, I could do it, or I could suggest a college or university that could collaborate with them to do this.
Sincerely,
Randy
David personally I am glad you posted the good doctor's reply It gives me hope that there is some credentialed researchers looking in to this that could put an end to this nightmare we need to walk a thin line When it comes to the doctors that have jumped on the band wagon and not post there info or even their names on the board it could result in a barrage unwanted emails and sour them to the task at hand and we would not want that would we I got rid of the DR's reply as requested and then I put it back lucky I saved it ---ant
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #7 on Oct 26, 2005, 11:30pm »
Dear Wannabe,
I was wondering the same thing. You know this Collembola has found to be "semi-aquatic"
as well. So your dropping out of Law School???? We need you to represent us on our class-action suit that's coming up pretty soon. Finish Law school, then go to Med school!!! yeah right ,eh? Keep us posted in your decisions.
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #8 on Oct 27, 2005, 12:18am »
london
yeah some species of collembola are aquatic or semi aquatic. The taxonmic class collembola apparently has thousands of species that are adapted to a myraid of envrionments.
But I have been exchanging some emails with Dr. Wymore, and hes a bright guy...duh he is a phd/professor after all! And He plans to continue his PCR experiments with primers of other organisms such as flat worms, and nematodes...so we will see if it verifies Chem G. theory.
As for law school, its my last year..so im going to finish it. As for a class action suit, I might just join you in it! But i dont know about representing you! You want to win right??? Ha
As for med school or graduate school..i gotta get in first!!
Joined: Aug 2005 Gender: Female Posts: 2,396 Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #9 on Oct 27, 2005, 3:08am »
Hello SueL
Strange but just a couple of days ago I saw an action similar to what you are describing. I quickly turned on the film on the digial Blue microscope and got 6 or 8 consecutive films of what you are calling a fiber "stinger". I think this thing is a reproductive prong, myself.
This is what I saw, first, and don't mean to be strange but I saw the curved short fiber with the pointed end actually whap the specimen it was attached to, not once but twice in a row. I quickly turned on the scope's film and it did it again and then it was still. I thought the action was over, patiently I waited. I saw small little flakes come up to the fiber and kind of cuddle against it and swim off. That was just the beginning.
For some reason, I had placed a drop of 91% alcohol on this specimen. So, I placed another drop to see if more things would swim around.
Instead! I saw the tip of the fiber light up, as it glowed it seemed to be able to make other areas glow as well and this included the area that was previously "whapped". This whapped area definitely looked like a canal ( a gynemorphical canal, I believe). The hair-like fiber then began to slowly bend and as it did the light traveled up the fiber to the point where it was bending. The fiber inserted its tip into the canal and seemed to perform a function, pulling closer to the canal and then it bowed away. As all this was going on a cloudy substance emanated from the canal area into the surrounding liquid (the 91% alcohol). Other areas of the specimen lit up, then the prong sprung (sprang?) out of this canal, and once again was still.
But there was another fiber nearby, a flat one with a small dark crease in the center . . and this one seemed to extrude and intrude(?) back into the varmint. Within this flat fiber there was activity that looked like liquid being transported, it also had a faint amount of light, which was not "glowing" but reflective of the liquid or tiny bubbles moving within this fiber. After a short period (seconds) this also stopped.
Each time I placed alcohol on the specimen, it repeated the sequence and I filmed each episode.
Further, there was a rod shaped fiber that was actively dancing and seemed to gravitate toward a crinkly fiber that held some black specks within it. This fiber quickly subsided its activity.
At the top of this varmint, there was what seemed similar to a "blowhole" of a whale and from which, one of the crinkly fibers with the black specks was dangling.
Lastly, after filming this again and again, incredulous that it could thrive on in 91% alcohol for more than a half hour, I experimented with a drop of tap water. It swelled, became water logged, apparently drowned. The alcohol would then not resuccitate it!
What do you all think, does this seem to match what you have seen SueL?
This light traveling with the bend.. doesn't that sound like fiber optics? I don't know much about that.
Do you think this may be some sort of reproduction? I have seen this type of configuration (prong) 2/3rd of the way along the body, as belonging to some type of parasite, but cannot remember which it was, I think it was a type of hookworm.. just can't remember. But they called it a reproductive prong. The canal, I think of that as possibly a "gynemorphic canal" This is a term used for the canal of the S. mansoni parasite.
However, I do not recall anything in my reading of all the parasite types that discussed an ability to light up.
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #10 on Oct 27, 2005, 1:02pm »
Spec, can we view your film anywhere? I would like to see the stinger fiber in action to confirm my own observations at least! Let me go grab some popcorn and find a good seat...
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #11 on Oct 27, 2005, 8:15pm »
Not to take away from the importance of this thread but did anyone get Dr. Wymore's permission to post his letter here where potentially thousands may read it? I think there is a rule here that information like this can't be shared unless written permission from the doctor is submitted. The good doctor's letter is very encouraging but I'm wondering if he'd have written it had he known how many would be reading it.
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #13 on Oct 28, 2005, 1:45pm »
]Not to take away from the importance of this thread but did anyone get Dr. Wymore's permission to post his letter here where potentially thousands may read it? I think there is a rule here that information like this can't be shared unless written permission from the doctor is submitted. The good doctor's letter is very encouraging but I'm wondering if he'd have written it had he known how many would be reading it.
***
Dito on that!
I'd like to know that answer to your well phrased question as well. Personally, I highly doubt if such permission was granted.
I notice there was no "grant" or waiver displayed.
IMO, breaching the confidentiality of private mail is the basest of treasons. It can not only function as a personal betrayal but can, at times, cause irrepairable harm to the common good. I certainly hope that such is not the case here!
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #14 on Oct 28, 2005, 4:23pm »
well i certainly did not consider the sensitive issue of confidentiality, and regretfully I did not ask his permission to post his emial reply to my question.
Although, I cannot speak for him personally, the reason it really did not enter my mind is because the question I asked really draws on the experiments and I do not think any sensitive or personal information was revealed in his reply.
Most of the information in his email is already posted on the Morgellons foundation webpage, and my questions were designed for him elaborate on an issue on his experimental design specifically where the skin samples orginated from and whether he could get samples from the Oklahoma authors. Certainly no priviledged information was disclosed. I thought some people would be curious, and posting his reponse would inform people of interest.
However, you guys are right, and I really should have asked for his permission, Hope I dont get sued!!
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #17 on Oct 28, 2005, 6:52pm »
It's okay, Dr. Wymore has consented to having his letter posted here this time. Many who haven't read our Rules don't realize the potential consequences of this and we understand that. We just need to be very careful about posting anything concerning our doctors, whether it be Lyme or Morgellons. Some information could hurt them in various ways or even hamper ongoing research. Just realize that we all will be notified of anything new when the time is right, but it's up to MRF to release this info, not us.
Our thanks to all of you who were rightfully concerned about this situation as well as to Dr. Wymore, who is a very understanding and downright nice person!
~Help take a bite out of the Morgellons sting - get involved.~
~Lyme kills. Protect your family & educate yourself.~
wannabe scientist Guest
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #18 on Oct 30, 2005, 6:32am »
yeah i really didnt think about the implications about posting his private email to me. As mentioned before, I didnt think anything personal was revealed. And I was sorta caught in the moment with his reply that I wanted others to be informed of his thoughts to my question.
I apologized to Dr. Wymore through email...and being the gracious person that he is...accepted the apology without scalding!
I hope my mishap does not jepordize any further communication with him ....(i plan to have more...after reviewing more research conducted by him on morgellons)
In the future...I definately will not be posting personal emails..(without permission)..!! Thanks for you guys pointing out my misstep.!
I am in the final years of my law studies ...and I didnt even think bout the issue of revealing private information to the public!!! Grrrrr......did i pick the wrong career path!
Re: Wymore Morg. experiments/oklahoma study/G's th « Reply #19 on Oct 30, 2005, 11:03am »
Wannabe, thank you for being so gracious yourself. We totally understand the feeling of wanting to share when you have good news. And I'm glad that you have a rapport set up with the doctor and can discuss these things with him. He seems the type of person that would welcome input from all sources and not be threatened by it.
And good for you with the success of your law studies. You chose the right course as we just might have your first case waiting when you pass those finals.
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