|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 13, 2010 12:55:11 GMT -5
So, while NAC may be beneficial for the toxins created, it may also feed the problem?
|
|
|
Post by toni on Apr 13, 2010 13:08:35 GMT -5
NAC is an antioxidant also.
|
|
|
Post by kmarie on Apr 13, 2010 13:17:25 GMT -5
Vitamin C taken with NAC will help eliminate toxins according a LLMD. (sorry can't remember his name, but will tell when I remember)
Edited: Added a Source Below on Vit C with NAC
|
|
|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 13, 2010 13:17:53 GMT -5
Yes, thanks Toni, I was aware it is an antioxidant.
By stating "feed the problem", is in all actuality a question. Let me be more specific.
In what way does NAC feed the problem, or contribute to the growth of Candida, and thus resulting in intestinal dysbiosis from Candida?
Frankly, I have a hard time with this information, as I cannot imagine not taking antioxidants.
Frito
|
|
|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 13, 2010 13:20:29 GMT -5
Yes, KMarie, that is what I said.
NAC addresses toxins, but not the cause of toxins. It actually is referenced as promoting the cause, or Candida.
Edited to add: I am not addressing the toxins created by Lyme, simply those created by Candida.
I am after the cause or a way to effectively fight Candida, we know how to mitagate some of the effects, toxins.
This information I posted is important, in that this has not been mentioned and perhaps deserves some consideration by us.
Frito
|
|
|
Post by kmarie on Apr 13, 2010 13:24:33 GMT -5
- - - - -N-Acetyl Cysteine Cautions When taking N-acetyl cysteine it is recommended that two to three times as much vitamin C be taken at the same time. Failure to do so may result in more harm than good from taking this product because of the prolonged presence of the oxidized form of L-Cysteine. The vitamin C also helps keep the glutathione that is produced from the Cysteine in its reduced form so that it can continue acting as an antioxidant. www.advance-health.com/nacetylcysteine.html
|
|
|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 13, 2010 13:25:06 GMT -5
KMarie,
Perhaps Burrascano Guidelines?
Frito
|
|
|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 13, 2010 14:05:12 GMT -5
Quote, " NAC is also a good culture medium for yeast, like its parent molecule, cysteine. " overcomingcandida.com/oral_chelation.htm___________________________________________________ So again, cysteine can promote the growth of Candida. I can find ten sources promoting the use of NAC as compared to the one I can find about its promoting growth of Candida. A ten to one ratio of information saying to use it. But all of these sources state in reference to the mycotoxins, and does not address the candida itself. Just that its use is for the toxins. What I am trying to introduce, is that there are other ways to bind those toxins without promoting the growth of Candida. It is those we need to concentrate on and find. There are also other ways of increasing glutithione levels in the body without using NAC to do so. ___________________________________________________ Quote, " If intestinal dysbiosis (particularly candida) is not adequately treated prior to starting DMSA, any improvement from the DMSA may be masked when the intestinal dysbiosis worsens on exposure to a rich culture medium such as DMSA, cysteine, cystine, or NAC. It is interesting to note a report that NAC can stimulate lymphocytes or inhibit them, usually the later in the limited tests done." same source, link above. ____________________________________________________ Frito
|
|
|
Post by victory3 on Apr 13, 2010 17:21:02 GMT -5
Linda Page's "Healthy Healing" book recommends 4 cups Pau D'Arco tea daily (and I read elsewhere to steep tea for 12 minutes to be therapeutic) & she also states that "Olive leaf extract eats candida". I Think both herbs are mentioned in "Blue Skies'" herbal treatment list posted under supplements. *Had been diagnosed through blood test w/ep. barr and had very good success with the tea. Initially got extremely tired after the tea and would fall asleep for about 20 minutes....eventually no sleepy influence at all, more energy. Ran this by a doctor I'm working with and she says it must have been very effective, killing off whatever. Any search on " 'olive leaf' and 'candida'" brings up tons of info.
|
|
|
Post by Jill on Apr 14, 2010 7:36:21 GMT -5
Frito, Toni and Kmarie, Thanks for the info on NAC. I'm going to stop taking it for now and when I continue, I will be sure to use the Vitamin C. Appreciate the warning- I've just been taking it for years without checking the contra-indications. Victory 3 - thanks for the input on Pau d'arco. I have some in the cupboard- it's old but I'm going to try it anyway. Found info here: www.paudarco.org/ Fair use Excerpt: Candida Albicans, a fungus which causes yeast infections, has also been treated by the Pau d'Arco herb. Clinical studies also showed strong in vitro activity against various other bacteria, fungi and yeast, including: Aspergillus, Staphylococcus aureus, Streptococcus, Helicobacter pylori (common cause of stomach ulcers), Bucella, tuberculosis, pneumonia, and dysentery. Antiviral properties have been displayed in vitro by Pau d'Arco against viruses such as: herpes I and II, influenza, polio virus and vesicular stomatitis virus. Pau d'Arco is also confirmed as being an antiparisitic against various parasites, including: malaria, schistosoma, and trypanosoma. Additionally, the herb has even demonstrated usefulness as an anti-inflammatory. end excerpt
|
|
|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 14, 2010 9:04:28 GMT -5
I mentioned other ways to detox acetylaldehyde.
There is Vitamin B5, pantothenic acid or pantothenate, and also something I came across is BHT. I know little about it, and at this time am only looking at it. B5 also plays a role in Candida. It is also associated with preventing Candida from assuming its invasive form.
Something about Candida and intestinal dysbiosis to consider here. With Candida in the gut, what happens is the good bacteria that has been overtaken and crowded out or outright killed, is also the bacteria responsible for the production of most of the B vitamins in the body. Destroy the good bacteria, and one will suffer from lack of B vitamins. Especially B1, B3 or nicotinic acid or niacin, not niacinamide, B12, and folic acid.
About B3, Nicotinic Acid or niacin.
B3 can be taken in two forms. Either the nicotinic acid which is recommended, or the niacinamide form which is not recommended. Both are forms of Vitamin B3, but with different actions on the body.
B3, niacin, or Nicotinic Acid can be taken without getting the corresponding flush. You can experiment, but the flush is dependent on dose. One can find the dose they can take without getting the flush or one can take one aspirin 30 minutes prior to B3, and that will also tame the flush.
Interestingly, and corresponding to intestinal candida. With the destruction of the B vitamins, DNA/RNA synthesis will also be affected. B vitamins and DNA/RNA synthesis are directly related.
Also concerning Vitamin B12. Use sublingual. Sublingual is almost like getting an injection. It goes into the blood from under the tongue as opposed to having to go through the intestines to be absorbed and restributed to the blood.
Lack of good bacteria in the intestines can also lead to other vitamin deficiencies. For example Vitamin K. Just an FYI, The B's wont take care of it all.
And to further my point, 90% of the immune system directly correlates with the intestines. This is through the lymphatics surrounding the intestines.
In Candida, the hyphae penetrate the intestinal wall, creating literally holes in which the contents of the intestines can then go through. It is picked up by the lymphatics surrounding the intestine. From there it reaches the bloodstream by way of the portal vein, then the liver, and then the bloodstream. Leaky Gut. Autoimmune. Toxins. Parasites. Bacterial Infections. And the potential or better said, eventual systemic spread of Candida.
Additionally, as far as toxins goes, then one needs to consider bile binding herbs or fibers. FYI, I am one big toxin issue and have been fighting them for a long time. Apple pectin fiber has helped me immensely over a short period of time compared to everything else I have tried. In fact, it has proven so valuable to me, that I have stopped mixing it with Colonix recently and use it with an over the counter fiber!!
The only consideration to bile binding herbs, is if one were to have low cholesterol levels. Binding bile would then require more cholesterol to make new bile, and there for those with low cholesterol may already have hormonal issues because it takes cholesterol to make androgen hormones, in which we all need.
Just some more info, hope it is helpful.
Frito
|
|
|
Post by toni on Apr 14, 2010 10:19:18 GMT -5
Frito, this is so weird (interesting) that you're talking about (pantothenic acid Vit B-5) and Niacin. (I just now took this picture of my Niacin and Panthotenic B5 next to my keyboard on my desk) to show you something) here since you're mentioning these. They're GNC brands I have. I take (have forever) it seems (Pantothenic acid B-5) almost daily. I like it alot. As for the Niacin - I'd not recommend that to my worst enemy! This is why it's so odd you talking now about this. I was just mentioning this to a friend a couple of days ago. Niacin...my GOD, having Morgs, and taking this is almost suicidal. I thought I was going to keel over the other day when I took this supplement. I got HOTTER than hot from the inside out, and my entire body tingled like I was FULL of electrical ants crawling through me from head to toe. My skin turned tomato red too. I'm so aware of the "flush"....but this was the RUSH from Morgs hell. Seriously. Last year ( I tried one Niacin) tablet too, and the same thing happened. I tried it 2 or 3 days ago again, to see what would happen, and the same identical horrid experience happened again. It's now official with me, no more niacin for me.
|
|
|
Post by ruth on Apr 14, 2010 11:04:38 GMT -5
eprints.nuim.ie/1463/horizontal gene transfer in candida images.google.com/images?rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS363US364&q=Candida%20parapsilosis&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=witinyurl.com/y2m5vmswww.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/EID/vol10no6/03-0873.htmThese results suggest that biofilm production plays a role in C. parapsilosis outbreaks. C. parapsilosis is increasingly responsible for hospital outbreaks, and the hands of healthcare workers may be the predominant environmental source www.phri.org/research/pdf/res_art_perlin08.pdfwild birds with drug resistant candidas www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20307325Of the isolated yeasts, 18.1% (or 26/144) were found to be resistant to all 11 antimycotic agents they were tested against i.e. Nystatin, Amphotericin B, Flucytosine, Econazole, Ketoconazole, Clotrimazole, Miconazole, Itraconazole, www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10523538 Finally, skin isolates did not differ, as a whole, from blood isolates in their adherence to plastic. This property was associated with a morphotype, as defined by a colony with continuous fringe, which was present among both skin and blood isolates. While confirming the genetic heterogenicity of C. parapsilosis, our data strongly suggest that the potential of this fungus to cause mucosal disease is associated with Sap production and is substantially distinct from that of systemic invasion.
|
|
|
Post by Jill on Apr 14, 2010 11:37:21 GMT -5
Lots of great information here. Thank you Frito for the help with Vitamin B5. Could be friend or foe evidently? Re: Vitamin B12- for years I supplemented B12 with the sublingual type. I best start again. Will also try the apple pectin- thanks for all the tips. Agree about the Candida and Leaky gut. Seems like what this 'M' sufferer has? download.abstractcentral.com/ACG/proofs/P984.html Still, I am confused about taking supplements such as L Glutamine. Seems it could also fuel the Candida? Ruth- thanks for the links. Horizontal gene transfer in candida. Wow.
|
|
|
Post by kmarie on Apr 14, 2010 15:40:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kmarie on Apr 14, 2010 15:53:57 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by fritolay66 on Apr 14, 2010 16:41:26 GMT -5
KMarie,
I would like to support the information you have just posted by using my own experiences.
Way back in the beginning, when I was first entering into the morgellons hell and beginning to develop lesions, I had multiple cultures of those initial lesions. Every single one of them came back negative for bacterial infection!!! Every one.
This is incredibly signifigant, because those lesions were incredibly deep, inflamed, and open to not only the "normal bacterial fauna" found on the skin, but also to the environment. And that environment included the hospital where I worked many a long hour. And the unit I worked in, we got the sickest of the sickest. Bacterial pathogens abound. None was identified by culture from my lesions.
I personally believe lack of infections in or around the lesions I have are indicative of fungii involvement. Fungii are what our antibiotics are made of. If we have spores and fungii in our skin or bodies for that matter, then it would make sense there is no bacterial infection around the infestation or growth point. And although I cannot find journal supported research in which directly correlates this with human infection, I can find plenty of supportive information concerning the environmental fungii.
Toni,
You mentioned Niacin and your experience. I grinned, because I did the same thing! God awful. Ugh. Have you tried the aspirin thrity minutes prior and lower the dose of niacin. Cut the tablet in fourths and start from there. Over time you will find the reaction gets better.
I am glad you mentioned this. I was hoping someone would.
Jill,
Concerning the amino acids. I personally have a hard time with them. I have tried supplementing them with numerous products, and every time they give me a headache and make me feel rather ill.
I believe this is where the support of the enzyme pathways address the amino acids. To explain in short form, the amino acids, have a pathway in which they are formed or utilized as well as broken down. Certain vitamins and minerals are needed to either make or use them. Just supplementing the amino acid is more like treating downstream effects and does not address what occurs prior to the utilization of the amino acid.
I myself, have an incrediblely tough time with detoxing, and so this tells me that what leads up to the utilization or breakdown of the amino acids or enzymes, is the problem area for me. I either have a genetic deficiency, or with depletion within the chain of events at certain points in these pathways, am thus incapable of detoxifying "normally". Ich....need to explain that last sentence better. I either have a genetic deficiency or I have such an overload of toxins and there for depletion of vitamins, enzymes, minerals, that the normal pathway cannot function, if at certain points in that pathway are depleted. There for the downstream effects would be also a depletion of the amino acid itself or its function. Does this make sense?
Some respond rather well to supplementing directly where as I have not. There would be many differences between those of us that are suffering and this would explain why some products work for some and not others.
Frito
|
|
|
Post by jeany on Apr 14, 2010 18:36:57 GMT -5
Pau D'Arco - THE LISTThere has been much discussion by many authoritative authors and researchers on the subject of Pau d'Arco. This is a composite list of the various diseases and afflictions these research articles have mentioned when discussing Pau d'Arco. www.pau-d-arco.com/TheList.htmlJust wanted to mention: while I was on long term antibiotic treatment I also took Pau D'Arco and didn't have one yeast infection. Jeany
|
|
|
Post by jeany on Apr 14, 2010 18:51:46 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by waldenflo on Apr 14, 2010 20:39:03 GMT -5
WOWZA! What incredibly helpful and surprising information...like NAC potentiating Candida without whopping doses of C! Go figure! I need to do some serious reading here, when Im not falling asleep at the 'puter. (What Candida?) Quick story...I keep an herbal pharmacy in my desk at school. One day I reached in and thought I'd scarfed down a few MSMs. Instead, I'd taken 3 NACs @ 600 mg. ea. I headed off for home shortly after. En route, I had an immediate onset of an "itch from hell biting all over" severe brain fog episode like Ive not had since last Aug. when I ended up in hosp. Very interesting! Thanks to all for this provocative thread... flo
|
|