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Post by godsgrace on Jun 3, 2008 8:16:06 GMT -5
Steve, after re-reading this thread I have realized that we do sound as if we ar eattacking you. For this I apologize.
I personally see it as debate but I do understand how sometimes our emotions get in the way.
Yes, Dr Hildy found evidence of silicone in the human body, not just silicon which is found naturally.
I guess it is quite possible for an organism to change the chemical composition of an element but I'm not so sure it could change silicon into silicone.
If you do find evidence of that, please share it.
Believe me Steve, I would love nothing more than for this thing to be natural in origin but the experts, the evidence and my gut says different.
Take Care Steve and thanks so much for the healthy debate!!
bless you
godsgrace
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Post by skytroll on Jun 3, 2008 10:03:57 GMT -5
It seems the silica is forming the silicon in our body because of the chemical composition. This is what I meant Steve, I am not attacking am just as frustrated, and do read all your posts. I do not think the sponge is off the the hook. The post above, seems to indicate how the use of the sponge in man made materials, that is what I am getting at. The fiber optics and the light generation. Where does the light come from when these are at bottom of ocean? I think it is in the chemical reactions. And yes sponge genes, fly genes, worm genes etc. are part of us as well, just rearrarranged differently. What I wonder about is the chemical reactions that take place, like demineralization. Wonder how that fits with the sponge. Steve, this is what I mean, how this is used in products etc. "Nanostructural Organization of Naturally Occurring Composites. Part II. Silica-Chitin-Based Biocomposites. Hermann Ehrlich1, Dorte Janussen2, Paul Simon3, Vasily V. Bazhenov4, Nikolay P. Shapkin4, Christiane Erler1, Michael Mertig1, René Born1, Sascha Heinemann1, Thomas Hanke1, Hartmut Worch1, and John N. Vournakis5 1Max Bergmann Center of Biomaterials and Institute of Materials Science, Dresden University of Technology, D-01069 Dresden, Germany 2Forschungsinstitut und Naturmuseum Senckenberg, Senckenberganlage 25, D-60325 Frankfurt am Main, Germany 3Max Planck Institute of Chemical Physics of Solids, D-01187 Dresden, Germany 4Institute of Chemistry and Applied Ecology, Far Eastern National University, 690650 Vladivostok, Russia 5 Marine Polymer Technologies, Inc. Danvers, MA 01923, USA Investigations of the micro- and nanostructures and chemical composition of the sponge skeletons as examples for natural structural biocomposites are of fundamental scientific relevance. Recently, we show that some demosponges (Verongula gigantea, Aplysina sp.) and glass sponges (Farrea occa, Euplectella aspergillum) possess chitin as a component of their skeletons. The main practical approach we used for chitin isolation was based on alkali treatment of corresponding external layers of spicules sponge material with the aim of obtaining alkali-resistant compounds for detailed analysis. Here, we present a detailed study of the structural and physico-chemical properties of spicules of the glass sponge Rossella fibulata. The structural similarity of chitin derived from this sponge to invertebrate alpha-chitin has been confirmed by us unambiguously using physico-chemical and biochemical methods. This is the first report of a silicachitin composite biomaterial found in Rossella species. Finally, the present work includes a discussion related to strategies for the practical application of silica-chitinbased composites as biomaterials."................. from this link: note mention of collagen, and this is very important, have thought collagen deformation part of what going on with us. Systemic. tinyurl.com/4uesdbBiomaterials, and bottom up as mentioned in your link above. I think this is very much linked to this, also the dead zones in the oceans? They call it the "silicate phenomenon" Will get more on that. But, you have been diligent, and I appreciate your theory, as I do all. Makes for great debate, since the scientists are not doing this other than some you found, then we will. Thank you. We may not agree, but leave no sponge unturned. There seems to be some glass sponges of interest as well Skytroll
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Post by skytroll on Jun 3, 2008 10:13:10 GMT -5
silicachitin composite biomaterial found in Rossella species tinyurl.com/5y5ggpwww.doaj.org/doaj?func=abstract&recNo=4440&id=262975&q1=Is&f1=all&b1=and&q2=&f2= Nanostructural Organization of Naturally Occurring Composites—Part II: Silica-Chitin-Based Biocomposites Author: Hermann Ehrlich ; Dorte Janussen ; Paul Simon ; Vasily V. Bazhenov ; Nikolay P. Shapkin ; Christiane Erler ; Michael Mertig ; René Born ; Sascha Heinemann ; Thomas Hanke ; Hartmut Worch ; John N. Vournakis Abstract: Investigations of the micro- and nanostructures and chemical composition of the sponge skeletons as examples for natural structural biocomposites are of fundamental scientific relevance. Recently, we show that some demosponges (Verongula gigantea, Aplysina sp.) and glass sponges (Farrea occa, Euplectella aspergillum) possess chitin as a component of their skeletons. The main practical approach we used for chitin isolation was based on alkali treatment of corresponding external layers of spicules sponge material with the aim of obtaining alkali-resistant compounds for detailed analysis. Here, we present a detailed study of the structural and physicochemical properties of spicules of the glass sponge Rossella fibulata. The structural similarity of chitin derived from this sponge to invertebrate alpha chitin has been confirmed by us unambiguously using physicochemical and biochemical methods. This is the first report of a silica-chitin composite biomaterial found in Rossella species. Finally, the present work includes a discussion related to strategies for the practical application of silica-chitin-based composites as biomaterials. Journal: Journal of Nanomaterials Issn: 16874110 EIssn: 16874129 Year: 2008 Volume: 2008
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Post by skytroll on Jun 3, 2008 10:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by lilsissy on Jun 3, 2008 10:58:35 GMT -5
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Post by lilsissy on Jun 3, 2008 11:10:41 GMT -5
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Post by toni on Jun 3, 2008 11:26:18 GMT -5
This is just an article I found, not scientific, but it can help in searching. Interesting statement they've made here (towards the bottom) Furthermore, silicone cannot make silica, but silica or silica bicarbonate can make silicone through natural cellular interaction in a biological system. www.homeandbodyhealth.com/page/page/4667470.htm
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Post by skytroll on Jun 3, 2008 14:25:23 GMT -5
Aflatoxicosis: found in chickens and S. cerevisiae added to feed. Aflatoxin: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aflatoxincheck out photo image: we have not looked at aspergillis is in with the agro toni. in that ti-plasmid as well. Contamination conditions Part of a series on Toxicology and poison Toxicology (Forensic) - Toxinology History of poison (ICD-10 T36-T65, ICD-9 960-989) Concepts Poison - Venom - Toxicant - Antidote Acceptable daily intake - Acute toxicity Bioaccumulation - Biomagnification Fixed Dose Procedure - LD50 - Lethal dose Toxic capacity - Toxicity Class Toxins and venoms Neurotoxin - Necrotoxin - Hemotoxin Mycotoxin - Aflatoxin - Phototoxin List of fictional toxins Incidents Bradford - Minamata - Niigata Alexander Litvinenko - Bhopal 2007 pet food recalls List of poisonings Poisoning types Elements Toxic metal (Lead - Mercury - Cadmium - Antimony - Arsenic - Beryllium - Iron - Thallium) - Fluoride - Oxygen Seafood Shellfish (Paralytic - Diarrheal - Neurologic Amnesic) - Ciguatera - Scombroid Tetrodotoxin Other substances Pesticide - Organophosphate - Food Nicotine - Theobromine - Carbon monoxide - Vitamin - Medicines Living organisms Mushrooms - Plants - Animals Related topics Hazard symbol - Carcinogen Mutagen - List of Extremely Hazardous Substances - Biological warfare Aspergillus fumigatus as seen under the electron microscope Aflatoxin producing members of Aspergillus are common and widespread in nature. They can colonize and contaminate grain before harvest or during storage. Host crops are particularly susceptible to infection by Aspergillus following prolonged exposure to a high humidity environment or damage from stressful conditions such as drought, a condition which lowers the barrier to entry. The native habitat of Aspergillus is in soil, decaying vegetation, hay, and grains undergoing microbiological deterioration and it invades all types of organic substrates whenever conditions are favorable for its growth. Favorable conditions include high moisture content (at least 7%) and high temperature. Crops which are frequently affected include cereals (maize, sorghum, pearl millet, rice, wheat), oilseeds (peanut, soybean, sunflower, cotton), spices (chile peppers, black pepper, coriander, turmeric, ginger), and tree nutz (almond, pistachio, walnut, coconut, brazil nut). The toxin can also be found in the milk of animals which are fed contaminated feed. Virtually all sources of commercial peanut butter contain minute quantities of aflatoxin,[2] but it is usually far below the US Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) recommended safe level. Pathology High-level aflatoxin exposure produces an acute necrosis, cirrhosis, and carcinoma of the liver exhibited by hemorrhage, acute liver damage, edema, alteration in digestion, and absorption and/or metabolism of nutrients. No animal species is immune to the acute toxic effects of aflatoxins including humans; however, humans have an extraordinarily high tolerance for aflatoxin exposure and rarely succumb to acute aflatoxicosis. Chronic, subclinical exposure does not lead to as dramatic of symptoms as acute aflatoxicosis. Children, however, are particularly affected by aflatoxin exposure which leads to stunted growth and delayed development.[3] Chronic exposure also leads to a high risk of developing liver cancer, as the metabolite aflatoxin M1 can intercalate into DNA and alkylate the bases through its epoxide moiety. This is thought to cause mutations in the p53 gene, an important gene in preventing cell cycle progression when there are DNA mutations. Medical research indicates that a regular diet including apiaceous vegetables such as carrots, parsnips, celery and parsley, reduces the carcinogenic effects of aflatoxin.[4] Detection of aflatoxin in humans There are two techniques that have been used most often to detect levels of aflatoxin in humans. The first method is measuring the AFM1-guanine adduct in the urine of subjects. Presence of this breakdown product indicates exposure to aflatoxin in the past 24 hours. However, this technique has a significant flaw in that it only produces a positive result in approximately one-third of positive test subjects. Additionally, due to the half-life of this metabolite, the level of AFM1-guanine measured can vary significantly from day to day, based on diet, and thus is not useful for assessing long term exposure. Another technique that has been used is a measurement of the AFB1-albumin adduct level in the blood serum. This approach is significantly more accurate, as positive results are generated in 90% of positive test subjects. This test is also useful for measuring long-term exposure, as it remains positive for two to three months. albumin? that would be the calcite? like? mycotoxin fungi yes the silica making silicon or calcium carbonate. the alkenes, alkanes, we are at 10 in the kidneys mean HIGHLY alkaline not high acidic. High acidic is 1 we are normally 7.5 silica forms silicon in the kidneys where PH is 10 meaning highly alkaline, feeds the silica. So, we are getting excess amounts of silica? from where? Silica would be a good start for synthesizing the human? mmmmmmcheck this out, partial immortalization: on the way to transformation? pimm.wordpress.com/category/biology/skytroll
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doraisabel
Full Member
Have Faith in the LOrd, together we will get through this.
Posts: 203
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Post by doraisabel on Jun 3, 2008 15:53:12 GMT -5
Toni,
That was a good article ! I forgot about that one, It was one of Dr. Hildys first findings which she presented at the NRIP Conference in 2006.
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Post by toni on Jun 3, 2008 16:41:05 GMT -5
Yes, it was, sort of helps give a "lead" to silicon.
I've recently learned (which might be common knowledge) but I didn't know this:
Certain bacteria and fungi can synthesize cellulose too.
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Post by glennb on Jun 3, 2008 19:20:34 GMT -5
Steve, I think we can express a difference of opinion here without resorting to insults. My basic difference with you is that I do not believe that Morgellons disease evolved naturally. I agree that it has natural components (and I think artificial components) and certainly could contain sponge DNA as a part of it, but I believe it was hobbled together in a biolab. For one thing agrobacterium(sp) has been found in Morgellons sufferers and agrobacterium is frequently used in the process of genetic modification. I have come to feel rather passionate or adamant about both chemtrails and Morgellons so I suppose it is true that I do have an agenda about them. I am upset (but not surprised) that neither of these serious issues is being adequately covered by mainstream media, so my contribution has been to maintain a site that includes as much info as possible in an easy to digest form for the general public. My site(link below) started off as a chemtrail site but as the Morgellons connection has emerged it is also including that topic. I am not conducting serious scientific research on Morgellons beyond examining & studying them under magnification and working on a method to easily diagnose the condition. I do share my observations about what does and does not work for me as far as making the condition more bearable. I have shared many times on what is helping. I have suspected for years that there was a connection between chemtrails and Morgellons and gradually information is coming out that strongly suggests there is a connection. If nothing else the barium in the chemtrails might be lowering immunity to the point that new and bizarre diseases are appearing in the general public, although, with the finding of fibers in the chemtrails and in raindrops that are a spot on match for the fibers found in Morgellons sufferers it appears that the disease may result from a combination of lowered immunity and chemtrail spread pathogens. Also nematode eggs of some type have been found in chemtrails. I am sorry to hear that you are suffering from this and I applaud your research efforts even though I do not agree entirely with your conclusions. My name is on my web page. I see no reason to use my full name when posting to this board. For one thing it is just easier to type in glennb rather than glennboyle every time I sign in. And I'm sorry if my post upset you but reading remarks that even subtly suggest that this or that opinion about Morgellons shouldn't be expressed because it may cause us not to be taken seriously really sets my eyebrows to quivering. These types of remarks or insinuations always make me feel like I am being told to shut up and not share the truth of this experience. I strongly feel it is completely necessary that the entire truth be known if a cure/solution is to be found. Part of this truth is what the origin of this disease is. And if it was created in a biolab, by whom and for what purpose. imageevent.com/firesat/strangedaysstrangeskies
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Post by glennb on Jun 3, 2008 20:38:39 GMT -5
It is only human nature to want to define things and label what they are in the process of understanding them. This approach to understanding our world starts at a very early age when we are shown vocabulary boards or books in school with pictures of various things on them and the word underneath..."This is a tree this is a cat this is a dog"
It is only human nature to want to slap a label on Morgellons, but alas, this is not so easily done with Morgellons because it is so complex. Someone discovers that Morgellons sufferers have agrobacterium in their lesions and Viola! Morgellons is caused by Agrobacterium states one school. Others find Columbella and blame the Columbella. Others find spiders or mites, fungus, black flies, Chlamydia, Lyme.
Arguments start and the resulting confusion and disagreements slow progress in discovering & understanding what this really is. Perhaps this aspect is even deliberately manipulated to increase confusion.
Morgellons is like the story of the 20 blind men arguing about describing the elephant. Each blind man is describing what he can feel of the elephant from his standing position and although they are in disagreement with each other about what the elephant is, they are all correct in their differing observations, but just partially correct as non of them is getting the overall picture.
Imo all of the following are true about morgellons, it involves fungus, parasites, man-made fibers, bizarre insect infestations, in many cases Lyme disease & coninfections with other tick-born diseases, chlamydia pnuemonia, agrobacterium and a main, as yet unidentified pathogen that imo is a biolab created mixture of various parasites, Oncho, moth, fungal and spider DNA. Part of this life form is artificially created and involves nanotechnology. Morgellons causes skin lesions but is also systemic, in the blood and can attack just about every area of the human body causing everything from hearing loss, mental decline, vision loss, cns problems joint problems, heart & lung involvement, chronic fatigue, dental decay & tooth loss, lymph blockage, immune suppression & more.
It's almost as if it were designed this way to make diagnosis and treatment difficult. And with modern medicine being what it is in America today this does not leave much hope of being able to obtain proper treatment.
Even my doctor, who I think is an exceptional doctor tends to label morgellons as being caused by one thing. last time I went in it was agrobacterium. I had wanted to be checked for chlamydia as others with Morgellons had been discovering co-existing chlamydia infections. When I was discussing this with the doctor I was told no no it's not chlamydia its agrobacterium.
Well it is both most likely as well as a host of other things. Morgellons is possibly the most complex disease syndrome that humanity has ever faced.
I think it is important for everyone doing morg research to keep in mind just how incredibly complex and multi layered this disease is. Figuring out how each aspect of the disease fits together and works with other components of the disease is not going to be easy.
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Post by bessie on Jun 3, 2008 20:45:10 GMT -5
Glenn - Your post and your website took my breathe away. Thank you so much for having the courage, foresight, energy, and intelligence to do what you are doing. I believe this is the "year of the quickening". I can feel it. Bessie
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Post by glennb on Jun 3, 2008 20:53:56 GMT -5
Thank you Bessie. Comments like yours make me feel like all the work was worth it.
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Post by bessie on Jun 3, 2008 21:15:10 GMT -5
You are quite welcome. I think I will sleep peacefully tonight.
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Post by freyman on Jun 3, 2008 23:03:09 GMT -5
Godsgrace, no need to apologize, I knew what I was getting into when I started the thread, my intent is to spark intelligent debate to get the wheels turning and hopefully inspire some of the intelligent people here to look into what I believe is going on. Glenn, I apologize for my remarks, I would just like to ask you to give me the benefit of the doubt and look at what I am presenting with an open mind, I think you will will be surprised to find that this can indeed explain the agrobacterium, the chlamydia pnuemonia, the bacterias, the lyme disease, the joint pain, the widespread diversity in the organisms being reported, and most importantly the "fibers"and so much more. Unfortunantly I cannot put all of this information out at one time, I have a library of articles and links to pertinent websites that has become a chore to just keep organized. I cannot necessarily provide overwhelming evidence for each and every factor but I can provide facts and findings that can support virtually everything I am claiming, enough that when compiled with everything else the evidence as a whole becomes overwhelming. This issue in my opinion is the most important thing on the planet. We, the human race as well as every living thing, are facing the greatest threat to our existence than we ever have and it is imperative that we act immediatly, I think most of us who suffer from this disease realize that and since the rest of the world has their head up their ass we are left to figure this out on our own and to be honest I am sometimes overwhelmed by the shear magnitude of this situation, which is why I am here, not for glory, not for recognition, but for help. I did not come to my conclusion overnight, it was a long process and one of the biggest obstacles in my path was Science and my belief that the so called experts knew what they were talking about. It was not easy at first to seperate the facts from the conclusions reached by the scientists, there is so much that they consider facts that really shouldn't be considered as facts, but yet they present it as such. Granted it will take an open mind to accept what I am claiming but if you only allow yourself to get passed a couple of obstacles you will begin to see how perfectly everything falls into place, how everything comes under one umbrella, it almost seems too simple to be true once your where I'm at now. This theory that I believe to be true is incomprehensible in scope and can even be applied as far back as 500 to 600 million years ago in regards to what is considered as "evolution". By applyiing this theory to "evolution" all of the "gaps" between species disappear, the widespread diversity becomes explainable, and so many unanswered questions get answers, it may even explain the mass extinction events that have taken place throughout the history of this planet, including the dinosaurs. I cannot tell you that I have every detail figured out, there is much to learn still, but I know I am close to the bottom of it all, the sponge is after all considereed the oldest animal in existence and certainly one of the most bizarre. What I have not been able to answer yet is the role or position of fungi, mycoplasmas, slime moulds, microsporidians, and bacterias (each and every one of these are found in the sponge by the way)and the link between the sponge and the Cnidarias(jellyfish). If you haven't noticed the jellyfish appear to be taking over the world, there is a connection here, somewhere. Science has already found a sponge with DNA identical to that of a Cnidarian, again, strong support for what I am claiming. There are so many factors involved in all of this that I don't know where to start but since we are currently debating silica/silicone I will throw out a few details regarding biomineralization so that you can get an understanding of what the sponge is capable of, it's kind of like a little chemist, and we have no idea how it works. These are great articles by the way, too bad I hate chemistry. Sorry for any posts that I did not reply to yet, I will make every effort to get to those ASAP. www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=15141repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=csgcdeposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?idn=971995133&dok_var=d1&dok_ext=pdf&filename=971995133.pdf
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Post by godsgrace on Jun 3, 2008 23:33:17 GMT -5
Steve, the chlaymidia pneumonia mycoplasma is man made/man manipulated.
How else does one explain the combination of a sexually transmitted disease combined with a respiratory illness?
There is Mycoplasma Pneumonia and there is also Chlamydia Pneumonia which is also a mycoplasma.
interesting, hu?
gg
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Post by freyman on Jun 4, 2008 0:13:43 GMT -5
I cannot provide conclusive evidence for every one of the factors involved in morgellons but there always seems to be a link with the sponge, like this one. See for yourself how much literature is out there on this topic. I encourage you to read this study in it's entirety, since this bacteria is exclusive to the sponge it supports the idea that the sponge is reproducing, or replicating it. This is not an isolated case. If the sponge could indeed do what I claim it is doing, and it carried with it the genetic code of a number of other organisms as well, like springtails and mites and mycoplasma and fungi just to name a few, and resided in the human body, and produced fiberous spicules and proteins and silica and calcium carbonate and collagen and ammonia, and was known to exhibit defensive characteristics using chemicals and spine and spicule formations, wouldn't that completely explain the dynamics that are being seen with morgellons? As far as I'm concerned, nothing is out of the question if this is what is happening, you could tell me you have a turtle growing under you skin and I would believe you. www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=427773
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Post by freyman on Jun 4, 2008 0:34:01 GMT -5
Sky, I think the dead zones and jellyfish are very much a part of this but I had not heard about the "silicate phenomenon" and would be interested in learning more about this. As I stated in a previous post it is becoming more evident that Porifera and Cnidaria are more closely related than previously thought, especially with the finding of a sponge with the DNA identical to a Cnidarian. My theory carried to it's extreme can explain this mystery, but I have little evidence to prove it, I will state it here just to get the idea out there.
As I've said, I believe the sponge copies and stores it's hosts DNA, which opens the door for the possibility that maybe the sponge has no DNA of it's own and what science finds when they examine the sponge is only the DNA of other organisms that it has parasitized. Could the sponge be the only life on the planet with no DNA of it's own? This would certainly explain a lot.
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Post by godsgrace on Jun 4, 2008 8:03:20 GMT -5
Steve, HOW INTERESTING!!!!!!!
So many of us hope that you are correct in your hypothesis.
It would be fantastic if this thing were really natural in origin.
With so many of us having negative experiences/fellings toward NIH/CDC/Gov't/Military ect........It was so very easy to think this is man-made.
Can you explain the goldenhead?
thanks
gg
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