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Post by freyman on Jun 8, 2008 14:55:28 GMT -5
I'm affraid I just don't get your point bessie, how is naming a known organism as the cause of a disease going to detour the involvement of others? On the other hand, making the claim that this disease is a result of some devious intention of man to control, alter, experiment on, or kill helpless individuals, without so much as a single piece of evidence, is going to allienate a tremendously large group of people and place a label on a disease that is not conducive to attracting the interest of science.
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Post by bessie on Jun 8, 2008 19:37:15 GMT -5
Steve - As the Bill of Rights says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident". I am totally unable to understand why you can't see it just by looking and opening your mind. The organism is known - sponges - so is the sceince of nanotechnology. And if you would only LOOK you would see just how many scientists, congressmen, etc., are very concerned about this very REAL threat. If you google "dangers of nanotechnology" you will get many, MANY hits by VERY reputable people. Google "dangers of sponges" and see what you get. Steve, surfing the internet is not research. You need a lab, equipment, at least a PhD, a budget, many years of progressive experience, colleagues to condouct peer review and to consult with on a level far beyond what anyone on this board can understand. I don't have a theory, though I do have a scientific background. I only ascribe to the theories that make the most sense AND are promulgated by the most talented. To say that Dr. Staninger's research is "unsubstantiated" or whatever word you used makes me say - "Has he even READ any of it???" Don't forget the the LEADING LABS IN THE COUNTRY are substantiating her work. And MANY fo the leaders in this quest support her - Dr. Kolb, Dr. Spencer, and others. No Spongebobs in the lot. Bessie
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Post by freyman on Jun 8, 2008 20:05:13 GMT -5
Research: a systematic investigation to establish facts, a search for knowledge, to investigate thuroughly, a collection of the facts.
Doesn't sound like you need a lab to me.
If Hildy was doing a thurough investigation she would have uncovered the fact that the sponge makes spicules that are comprised of the same material that man-made fiber optics are made of and her boat would have never left the dock. This is one of her key pieces of evidence is it not? To say that morgellons is man-made because the fibers are made out of the same material that fiber optics are made from doesn't hold water if nature can do the same thing now does it? And the fact that people are concerned about nanotechnology getting out of control doesn't amount to a hill of beans and has nothing to do with this disease. To say something might be done or can be done by man doesn't mean that it was or is being done. Show me some facts, or stop posting this crap on my thread. If her work is taken seriously then why wasn't she invited to the conference? I'll tell you why, because it's a joke. It's obvious that many of the folks on your side will never accept the fact that this is not man-made and I think there must be an underlying reason for that, antiestablishmentarianism I suspect. Oh and thanks for the laugh, to say that a person with a Phd is smarter than a person without one is very comical.
Whether you want to accept it or not, Hildy and all of those involved in trying to make this into a man-made entity are hurting this cause by helping to keep it from being acknowledged, bottom line.
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Post by lilsissy on Jun 8, 2008 22:15:40 GMT -5
Nobody can beat Morgellons into a box. There is way to much curiosity and illness to hide the truth.
It will emerge because of healthy debate and us bitchin buddies, so keep bitchin and debating buddies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tests are what we need most of all. We all need to start our own line of testing , this will force the C.D.C into being honest.
We could start by doing sputum and skin fungus samples ourselfs !!!!!!!!!
I will be working on this as I believe this is maybe the best approach for us. I can think it is this and you and think it is that . We can wait for the Government findings or we can do our own testing!!!!! Maybe we could force the truth out, if it were going to try to be consealed. We need to Unite in our own testing we may pop this ourselfs!!!
The proof is in the pudding! lilsissy
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Post by godsgrace on Jun 8, 2008 22:49:06 GMT -5
What is known, via Citovsky- is that there was Agrobacterium found. The variety that causes neoplastic growths- and represents the ONLY known cause of trans kingdom DNA transfer. Think silica. Hildy has the proof of the presence of silica (silicone and high density Polyethlyene fibers). trans kingdom DNA transfer? God did not build things to "jump kingdoms" A place for everything and everything in it's place. Humans are no place for Agrobacterium. It should only be found in plants...which is all the more reason for suspision as far as this being man-made....man-manipulated. Why are we finding agro in us and why aren't we finding other plant bacteria/DNA? ? godsgrace
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Post by freyman on Jun 8, 2008 23:11:44 GMT -5
If Agrobacterium only belongs in plants then why is it found in the sponge? Do you think it's just coincidence that every component of morgellons can be found to also exist within a sponge? The mycoplasma, the microsporidian, the bacterias, the silica, the collagen, the calcium carbonate, the ammonia, all of them in the sponge. www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1796987The reason the agrobacterium and the other organisms are being found in the people suffering from morgellons is because a single organism is producing replicas of of all the others, and it can do so because it has the genetic code of these organisms stored witin it's mitochondrial genome. Study the sponge and you will see for yourself that whenever a sponge colony is studied it will almost always contain possibly thousands of other organisms, this is also true with placozoans
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Post by godsgrace on Jun 8, 2008 23:18:36 GMT -5
OK Steve.... BUT WHY IS IT BEING FOUND IN HUMANS? ? fine if it is found in sponges or any other organism but it doesn't belong inside of US!!!!!!! MYCOPLASMA was manipulated to make it more virulent. Please prove us all wrong and prove that it is something found in nature and not something that has been maipulated in some way. can you explain the "goldenhead" trans kingdom DNA... can you tell us how that one happened? Agro just up and decided one day that it would jump kingdoms because it liked human bodies better than plants....OR SPONGES? ?? just asking confused frustrated godsgrace
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Post by freyman on Jun 8, 2008 23:30:51 GMT -5
What has made it jump kingdoms are the organisms at the root of all of this. Now their exact placement with respect to each other I am not certain of at this time, but I can tell you that the sponges share a trait with the Placozoans, Fungi and the Choanoflagellates that is highly unusual, extremely large mitochondrial genomes. It is my contention that at some point in the past one or more of these groups of organisms has parasitizied, or at a minimum, come in contact with just about every other living thing on this planet and when it did it copied the genetic code of these living things and stored it. Now it replicates these living things either randomly or at will. So to sum it up, Trichoplax Adhaerens, or a species of one of these other groups, came in contact with or was a parasite of a plant that was infected with agrobacterium and Trichoplax, or one of the others, copied the genetic code of this bacteria and now it is within us replicating it. The facts to support what I am claiming are all there, you just have to have an open mind to see it.
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Post by godsgrace on Jun 8, 2008 23:46:50 GMT -5
Steve, I don't usually enjoy being wrong but this is certaily one scenario where I would love to be "way off base"
The history of mycoplasma manipulation causing all of the new and emerging dis-eases has jaded me.
I believe in my heart that this is man-manipulated....somehow.
JUST LIKE MYCOPLASMA WAS.
hoping I'm wrong...for the first time, EVER.
godsgrace
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Post by freyman on Jun 9, 2008 1:09:48 GMT -5
I would just like to say to everyone that I cannot begin to explain why it is that I am the one to have made this discovery. I know I am intelligent but I am certainly not the smartest person to have ever lived. So it is as surprising to me as it must be to everyone else that I am bringing to light a phenomenon that has existed for possibly hundreds of millions of years, but I know that what I am claiming in regards to the replication of other organisms is true, and that this characteristic that is shared by atleast the Poriferans and the Placozoans is the reason the symptoms of morgellons are so bizarre. If you think about it, this can also explain a tremendous amount of other diseases and why bacterial infections are so common. I encourage everyone to learn the facts for themselves by studying the sponge, perticularly the "associated organisms" of the sponge and you will see how common it is to find large numbers of other organisms in a sponge colony. Then proceed to the placozoans and do the same, it is clear to me, as it should be to science, that the other organisms are not just hanging out with the poriferans and placozoans but that they are being created by them.
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Post by freyman on Jun 9, 2008 2:45:33 GMT -5
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Post by abbienormal on Jun 9, 2008 8:58:24 GMT -5
Hi Steve,
I think that your research and knowledge of the sponge is to be applauded and it is definitely a morgellons theory worth pursuing and should be pursued by the science community along with several other theories.
I am curious about the following and I asked you about some of these questions previously on YouTube:
How do you think we humans became infected with the sponge?
Why are there dense pockets of victims in Texas, California and Florida?
Is it contagious?
If not, why do our pets become infected or how do our pets become infected, including birds, snakes, turtles (pets that do not usually sleep with their masters)?
How would the sponge make bio-hazard signs, flower and heart shapes on the human body?
Do you still think that copper might help cure or at least knock down the disease? And if so, why?
Why does our hair hollow out and move around like a Medusa?
I am really impressed with what you have accomplished. And I wish that I had one ounce of your intelligence and tenacity and I really like the way that you compose your posts.
I hope that you are right.
Abbie
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Post by skytroll on Jun 9, 2008 11:00:54 GMT -5
Prof Frey, The alphaproteobacteria, are found in sponges. Now, it is also in the Agro? Here are some beneficial uses of the Ti-Plasmid including human cells. "Beneficial uses Plants that have undergone transformation with Agrobacterium. Plants that have undergone transformation with Agrobacterium. The DNA transmission capabilities of Agrobacterium have been extensively exploited in biotechnology as a means of inserting foreign genes into plants. Marc Van Montagu and Jeff Schell, (University of Ghent and Plant Genetic Systems, Belgium) discovered the gene transfer mechanism between Agrobacterium and plants, which resulted in the development of methods to alter Agrobacterium into an efficient delivery system for gene engineering in plants (Schell J, Van Montagu M., 1977). The plasmid T-DNA that is transferred to the plant is an ideal vehicle for genetic engineering (Zambryski, 1983). This is done by cloning a desired gene sequence into the T-DNA that will be inserted into the host DNA. This process has been performed using firefly luciferase gene to produce glowing plants. This luminescence has been a useful device in the study of plant chloroplast function and as a reporter gene (Root, 1988). Under laboratory conditions the T-DNA has also been transferred to human cells, demonstrating the diversity of insertion application (Kunik et al., 2001). The mechanism by which Agrobacterium inserts materials into the host cell by a type IV secretion system, is very similar to mechanisms used by pathogens to insert materials (usually proteins) into human cells by type III secretion. It also employs a type of signaling conserved in many Gram-negative bacteria called quorum sensing. This makes Agrobacterium an important topic of medical research as well." note the photo of this in carrot root: A. tumefaciens attaching itself to a carrot cell en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrobacterium_tumefaciensSkytroll
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Post by jwf on Jun 9, 2008 11:23:08 GMT -5
I would like to throw this out for consideration, and this conforms to the idea of an infection manipulated by Mother Nature with possible input by man.
Ticks carry agrobacterium, several micoplasmas, P. putida and aeruginosa, nematodes, and of course the Lyme bacteria. All of the above including ticks have been 'exper- imented with' by man, but of course mother nature readily handles mutations without our input, so that is always a consideration.
Certain nematodes only exist in close proximity to the ocean. They in turn carry all of the above, except ticks harbor them. You get the tick bite with an injection of all of the above and more.
My vote is for Nature-made and natural delivery with possible unintentional (trying to be kind here) poisoning of the soup by man.
Blue Skies.........John
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Post by silverangel on Jun 9, 2008 12:52:00 GMT -5
skytroll, in that photo of the a. tumefaciens attaching to the carrot cell, the fuzzy stuff at the bottom of the agrobac looks just like the little white "lint balls" that form on my skin........ it is my opinion that whatever this is, it started with agro......something they've sprayed on the crops that found its way into all the soil, water, everywhere??? they've messed with all these organisms, bt, fusarium, messing with the seeds so they resist pests and weeds, pesticides, whatever......did they even bother to study what all this "stuff" does to people? of course they didn't. they spray anhydrous ammonia and god knows what else on everything here like there's no tomorrow. i agree with u john. hugs, silverangel
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Post by skytroll on Jun 9, 2008 13:05:58 GMT -5
is used in human insertion: "This luminescence has been a useful device in the study of plant chloroplast function and as a reporter gene (Root, 1988). Under laboratory conditions the T-DNA has also been transferred to human cells, demonstrating the diversity of insertion application (Kunik et al., 2001)." from wiki Who Kunik? "Agrobacterium tumefaciens is a soil phytopathogen that elicits neoplastic growths on the host plant species. In nature, however, Agrobacterium also may encounter organisms belonging to other kingdoms such as insects and animals that feed on the infected plants. Can Agrobacterium, then, also infect animal cells? Here, we report that Agrobacterium attaches to and genetically transforms several types of human cells. In stably transformed HeLa cells, the integration event occurred at the right border of the tumor-inducing plasmid's transferred-DNA (T-DNA), suggesting bona fide T-DNA transfer and lending support to the notion that Agrobacterium transforms human cells by a mechanism similar to that which it uses for transformation of plants cells. Collectively, our results suggest that Agrobacterium can transport its T-DNA to human cells and integrate it into their genome." www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/041327598v1It has been suggested, but I bet ticks as well as aphids carry this. skytroll
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Post by violet on Jun 9, 2008 14:25:48 GMT -5
As much as I want to find out what this condition is, I don't know if I really want to know. Somehow, ignorance may be bliss with this condition... (And this coming from someone who is very strong in wanting to know the facts about difficult things and then figuring out how to deal with them.)
Bless you all. Bless us all.
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Post by greeneyes on Jun 9, 2008 15:15:13 GMT -5
morgellonsgroup.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=research&action=display&thread=1079I was wondering if this was any connection to the poster putting this idea forward once again; it seems like a distraction--it seemed like a distraction a year ago at the other board and it was so interesting to see all those coming on to view--that also left me wondering exactly what was up? The concept does not gel with what I understand; it almost seems like they are attempting to redirect, could that be? greeneyes
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Post by freyman on Jun 9, 2008 19:16:14 GMT -5
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Post by browncircles on Jun 9, 2008 21:52:33 GMT -5
Wow. Double Wow.
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