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Post by gezunked on Dec 10, 2010 7:17:55 GMT -5
Hi Skitzit,
why dont YOU have a dna test?
and i dont know anything much about genetics but arent chromosomes only found in a double helix? that is, even numbers - 23 pairs
and, if the answer is something along the lines of "except when they have been genetically enginered" can you tell me why you think, believe, or even know this is true?
My motivation for questioning your claims is not personal.
From here on in, to avoid confusion, i speak generally to LB members and not specifically to you skitzit or anyone in particular on here. This is a generic whine.
My main beef is that i feel this board is awash with frankly, absurd claims as to the nature of morgellons.
These unusual claims are inevitably based in supposition and despite an abysmmal lack of evidence, people seem happy to jump on board the next wild claim and even integrate it with previous, even contradictory theories with which they have had an affiliation. Inevitably, each new theory has one commonality which provides both the glue and the entree into this small but vocal circle - conspiracy. In my experience as soon as conspiracy raises its head in the morgellons discussion, it doesnt necessarily signal a conspiracy. What it signals is a population paranoid about government. People prepared to believe that totalitarian governments exist in secret behind the public facade of government. For others morgellons is beyond governments, beyond globalism, it can be proof of alien life!
I sometimes wonder how many people on here spend most of their lives curled in the foetal position, wide eyed and ashudder with the anticipation of some sort of seminal transcendence. Be it good or bad - or both!
Now, I'm as pluralistic as the next fat middle class white guy, but just now and then, maybe once a year, i have to get on here and say, "please stop it". But, i found that doesnt work and abuse, while tempting, proves pointless. So now i just sporadically snivel a complaint forth.
Has anyone noticed that LB seems to be an ever shrinking community? Maybe the people shrinking away feel more or less as i do, which generally is, why bother? Why be tainted with the hue of extremism? (to be generous).
That's about it, I'm pretty over this disease, but really over the nonsense, no, drivel which inundates this board. Think about your public behaviours on here. Because you dont understand this and you're not getting answers from the people you expect to have the answers does not, in anyway, imply a conspiracy.
Reading a bit of science without the scientific background is folly. Cutting and pasting science from disparate sources to justify or create theories that would beg to be accepted even into the realm of psuedo-science, is little more than an ego trip, or a mania.
Best of luck with your fantastic Morgellons illnesses. I suspect my version of morgellons is going to turn out like my life, extraordinarily mundane.
Gezunked
Viva Wikileaks!
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Post by gezunked on Dec 11, 2010 13:42:11 GMT -5
HI Skitzit, Thanks for not answering my three simple questions, responding with emotion instead of logic and attacking me personally because you don't like criticism. I'm not Julian Assange btw. If you can condense your unlikely theory into a sentence or two for we Untermenschen I'd be happy to email NASA and ask them if they have taken their eye off the space race in favour of bio-medical global domination. And I am serious. One or two sentences of faux logic would do, just something to quote to the PR guy. You don't think the PR guy could be in on "IT" too do you? 4th question: What drives you Ego or Mania? Only since I've joined LB has the true validity of Psychiatry become apparent. Gezunked www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3mz52S5ulk&feature=BF&list=QL&index=1
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Post by Jill on Dec 11, 2010 23:47:40 GMT -5
Skizit, I'm posting about Telomers as relates to Lyme disease on MDR: (I'm convinced that the work of Scientists in the area of Telomers/telomerase has everything to do with Lyme disease and 'M'- scroll down on link below : www.morgellons-disease-research.com/Morgellons-Message-Board/morgellons-disease-fiber-disease/7043-biodetection-system-detects-multiple-pathogens-simultaneously.htmlTelomerase as relates to Lyme disease... Tick Borne Disease Radio ResT - In Layman's Terms | Tick Borne Disease Radio ResT - In Layman's Terms Submitted by Tom Carolan on Thu, 02/11/2010 - 18:38 Fair use excerpt: Do you know who won the 2009 Nobel Prize for Medicine? Three telomerase researchers. Telomeres are the end caps to linear genetic material. Human telomeres are repeating patterns of genetic code that signal the end of a genetic strand. Like bumper strips that signal to a driver the end of the road is approaching. The shortening of telomere length has been linked to the aging process and increase risk of cancer. Antioxidants are hyped as a way to keep telomeres from shortening with age. But not all telomeres are built the same, there exist a type of telomere called a "hairpin telomere." Insted of bumper strips of genetic code that signal the end of the linear segment there is a hairpin turn (covalently closed) that caps the end of the double sided helical strand. This forms a very clear end point for the linear segment but imposes a new challenge during genetic replication. end Scroll down to this: TelomerASEs are the class of proteins that form telomeres during the genetic replication process. The telomerase responsible for creating hairpin telomeres is called a Telomere Resolvase aka ResT and is the focus of this article. Before proceeding let's step back, other than the Nobel prize money why should you care about this? Because ResT is found in some viruses and bacteria, most notably Borrelia Burgdorferi (Bb), the causative agent of Lyme Disease. If the process of telomere resolution could be inhibited using a drug you could discover an effective and very specific treatment for Lyme Disease. It would be specific to Bb because human telomeres are completely different from Bb telomeres. Since the drug would not be a broad range antibiotic it could safely be taken without spreading bacterial resistance. Lyme Disease patients often take prolonged courses of the most potent antibiotics (sometimes without good results - but that is a different story...). This spreads drug resistance and causes many unintended consequences like fungal infections and organ loss. Having a targeted drug is better for patients and everyone else. end excerpts More: www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/nov/28/scientists-reverse-ageing-mice-humansHarvard scientists reverse the ageing process in mice – now for humans Harvard scientists were surprised that they saw a dramatic reversal, not just a slowing down, of the ageing in mice. Now they believe they might be able to regenerate human organs Fair use excerpt; The Harvard group focused on a process called telomere shortening. Most cells in the body contain 23 pairs of chromosomes, which carry our DNA. At the ends of each chromosome is a protective cap called a telomere. Each time a cell divides, the telomeres are snipped shorter, until eventually they stop working and the cell dies or goes into a suspended state called "senescence". The process is behind much of the wear and tear associated with ageing. end
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Post by gezunked on Dec 12, 2010 8:31:01 GMT -5
“I hope some animal never bores a hole in my head and lays its eggs in my brain, because later you might think you're having a good idea but it's just eggs hatching.” Jack Handy “The popularity of conspiracy theories is explained by people's desire to believe that there is - some group of folks who know what they're doing” Damon Knight “All wish to possess knowledge, but few, comparatively speaking, are willing to pay the price.” Juvenal www.47.net/47society/www.audiograffiti.com.au/47/
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Post by Jill on Dec 12, 2010 11:47:17 GMT -5
Jill, I am still wondering how telomeres and Morgellons fit together. How is Morgellons a telomerase disease? Are you saying possibly that the human synthetic chromosome or other chromosome which may be acted upon are somehow being engineered to destroy telomeres or shorten them during translation? I'm trying to see how and at what point something acts on or with telomeres. You can tell I haven't researched this subject and thank you for your time. Skizit, Dr Stricker has a theory found, in part, here: oakhillgazette.com/morgellons-mystery-p2107-73.htmOak Hill Gazette: The community newspaper for Southwest Austin Excerpt: Stricker has a theory, but acknowledges a lot of research needs to be conducted to see if his theory is correct. He speculates that agrobacterium, which is found in the soil and also in a high percentage of ticks, is the cause of Morgellons, and that the reason many are co-infected with Lyme is that they may contract Morgellons from the same tick that gave them the Lyme disease. Furthermore, he notes a very curious finding. Telomerase is an enzyme that ads more DNA to the end of a chromosome after cell division. "Every cell and species has telomerase," said Stricker. "There have been comparative studies of telomerase in different organisms and it's been shown that the telomerase in Lyme and agrobacterium are exactly the same."end excerpt Looking for the Telomerase in Lyme- I found the info below. Has to do with ResT: tbdradio.com/node/59ResT - In Layman's Terms Submitted by Tom Carolan on Thu, 02/11/2010 - 18:38 Fair use excerpt: Do you know who won the 2009 Nobel Prize for Medicine? Three telomerase researchers. Telomeres are the end caps to linear genetic material. Human telomeres are repeating patterns of genetic code that signal the end of a genetic strand. Like bumper strips that signal to a driver the end of the road is approaching. The shortening of telomere length has been linked to the aging process and increase risk of cancer. Antioxidants are hyped as a way to keep telomeres from shortening with age. But not all telomeres are built the same, there exist a type of telomere called a "hairpin telomere." Insted of bumper strips of genetic code that signal the end of the linear segment there is a hairpin turn (covalently closed) that caps the end of the double sided helical strand. This forms a very clear end point for the linear segment but imposes a new challenge during genetic replication. TelomerASEs are the class of proteins that form telomeres during the genetic replication process. The telomerase responsible for creating hairpin telomeres is called a Telomere Resolvase aka ResT and is the focus of this article. Before proceeding let's step back, other than the Nobel prize money why should you care about this? Because ResT is found in some viruses and bacteria, most notably Borrelia Burgdorferi (Bb), the causative agent of Lyme Disease. If the process of telomere resolution could be inhibited using a drug you could discover an effective and very specific treatment for Lyme Disease. It would be specific to Bb because human telomeres are completely different from Bb telomeres. Since the drug would not be a broad range antibiotic it could safely be taken without spreading bacterial resistance. Lyme Disease patients often take prolonged courses of the most potent antibiotics (sometimes without good results - but that is a different story...). This spreads drug resistance and causes many unintended consequences like fungal infections and organ loss. Having a targeted drug is better for patients and everyone else. Visual diagrams make it easier to understand the action of ResT. The best diagrams and research of ResT comes from the University of Calgary by a researcher, George Chaconas, and his team. end excerpt Go to the link above- the diagrams make the ResT issue easier to understand. "There are 19 unique hairpin telomeres found on the plasmids and chromosome of Bb and they are grouped into 3 types" I would like to explore the above- if you are interesting in joining in? Jill
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Post by toni on Dec 12, 2010 12:05:11 GMT -5
From as little as I know (not being a molecular scientist), but as much as I've read, I tend to believe what Stricker says is exactly what's going on. Agrobacterium has hooked up with gut bacteria and caused the Morgs expressions as it's exhibited in us.
PS, he didn't say "the gut bacteria part" ...as that just came from extensive reading about it.
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Post by Jill on Dec 12, 2010 13:15:01 GMT -5
Agree with you Toni- The ResT - as relates to Bb and the statement by Sticker contain our direction and that contains our answers. That is the tie- Lyme and the Agrobacterium ti. more here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19122193
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Post by gezunked on Dec 12, 2010 14:35:11 GMT -5
Skizit, When you get bored with the number 47 and the letter "i" you might like to investigate the mystery of the numbers Eleven (11) and Four(4). vimeo.com/2128575
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Post by toni on Dec 12, 2010 15:48:03 GMT -5
Agree with you Toni- The ResT - as relates to Bb and the statement by Sticker contain our direction and that contains our answers. That is the tie- Lyme and the Agrobacterium ti. more here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19122193Yes, Jill, I agree too with you, those little telo's could be answers to so much. Here's a PLOS and side links too. I was reading this morn about (how to help extend those suckers) ;D, or at least keep them from shrinking)...or hairpining. I wonder if vit D and particular herbs/supplements might help. I looked at "Life Extension" as I rely a lot on herbal supplements from their info too. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091019122848.htmForgot, I think it's astragalus too that helps from what I read earlier.
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Post by toni on Dec 12, 2010 16:02:33 GMT -5
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Post by gezunked on Dec 12, 2010 20:58:28 GMT -5
Wow - that link has brought it all together for me. Now it all makes sense!
Any fool simply reading the abstract from that paper can see what's happening! Look here it is, the brief and simple explanation.
Telomerase reverse transcribes telomere DNA onto the ends of linear chromosomes and retards cellular aging. In contrast to most normal somatic cells, which show little or no telomerase activity, immune cells up-regulate telomerase in concert with activation. Nevertheless, during aging and chronic HIV-1 infection, there are high proportions of dysfunctional CD8+ CTL with short telomeres, suggesting that telomerase is limiting. The present study shows that exposure of CD8+ T lymphocytes from HIV-infected human donors to a small molecule telomerase activator (TAT2) modestly retards telomere shortening, increases proliferative potential, and, importantly, enhances cytokine/chemokine production and antiviral activity. The enhanced antiviral effects were abrogated in the presence of a potent and specific telomerase inhibitor, suggesting that TAT2 acts primarily through telomerase activation. Our study is the first to use a pharmacological telomerase-based approach to enhance immune function, thus directly addressing the telomere loss immunopathologic facet of chronic viral infection.
It's obvious to me now why this has never been picked up before - scientists are dumber than normal people! Sheesh, it took 11 of them to work that out!
(Steven Russell Fauce*, Beth D. Jamieson†, Allison C. Chin2,‡, Ronald T. Mitsuyasu†, Stan T. Parish*, Hwee L. Ng†, Christina M. Ramirez Kitchen§, Otto O. Yang†, Calvin B. Harley‡ and Rita B. Effros3,*)
And before you get too carried away with this paper have you considered that this may in fact itself be part of a conspiracy? Look what else i found during my hours of selfless 'research' - They nearly all work for the same university!!! What an opportunity, nay an obligation, to conspire! Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself:
* Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine and † Department of Medicine, David Geffen School of Medicine, University of California-Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA 90095; ‡ Geron, Menlo Park, CA 94025; and § Department of Biostatistics, University of California-Los Angeles, School of Public Health, Los Angeles, CA 90095
But that's not all....they also all live in California! Probably plotting their next satanic plan around some hospital cafeteria table as i type.
All that study wasted. All those dumb scientists had to do was come to LB and our collective genius could have sorted that out in probably about 2 weeks or less. Unless they have purposly delayed as part of "THE PLAN" (world domination etc)
Having said all that, there is one section of the paper I did struggle with understanding. I was wondering if one or some of our members who have multiple university degrees across many disciplines could translate this to common english for me.
Purified CD8+ T cells, stimulated with Ab coated beads and IL-2 and treated with TAT2 or DMSO during a 14-day culture period, were added to ELISPOT plate that contained an various HIV-derived peptides, based on previous mapping (– cont: irrelevant HIV peptide, + cont: CD2/CD28).
Gezunked
Ridiculing the ridiculous since the 1947. No better make that 1957 I'm no pinko 47ist. I'm a patriot. "...you know, love thy neighbour, do not kill, do not, you know, steal, cheat, lie from everybody. That's why we have to have computers, because man, nobody is perfect. You know." "Mm hm." "It's not even funny." "That's ridiculous"
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Post by morgellonsmoe1 on Dec 14, 2010 22:26:26 GMT -5
umm perhaps you can have an argument on another thread .. I went to put a great update here and I see a string of chat that is so confusing , makes no sence . No big out breaks this week and my face is about healed up and only a sore on my right arm remains .. staying on the ivermetine and milk thistle .. guess i had to give it that last week so the morgs would get behind
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Post by gezunked on Dec 15, 2010 2:00:08 GMT -5
Hi morgellonsmoe1,
My apologies for vandalising your thread. Like you, i saw a "string of chat that is so confusing" and sometimes i feel that stuff is so counterproductive it requires some response. In the perfect world i would have started a thread on junk theories or something but we all know this world isnt perfect.
Anyhoo, this is not my soapbox so i'll get off it. Best of luck with your morgs.
Gezunked
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Post by bannanny on Dec 15, 2010 14:01:35 GMT -5
I tried the horse paste for awhile way back when and it did nothing for me. Hope it continues to help you tho!!
hugs ~~ bannanny
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Post by skylark99 on Dec 30, 2010 14:22:16 GMT -5
well it is the end of December, Mo.... your last post on the 14th.,,, So, I am looking for an update. Hope you are still doing well with even more improvement! So....... let us hear from you!
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Post by morgellonsmoe1 on Jan 4, 2011 15:38:38 GMT -5
I'm doing great .. probably better if id remember to take meds cause some days I forget .
HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone !! not much new to add .. stinging and crawling have been gone for years while on 1000 mg of Tetracycline .. fibers no longer in my environment cause I keep it dry and windows and doors open as much as possible.. use dandruff shampoo for hair and cleaned up eyes using vi sine when I felt something in them for years now .. the sores have gotten less since taking the IVERMEC FOR HUMANS .. Hair has grown I need to pin it back now
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Post by morgellonsmoe1 on Jan 4, 2011 15:51:03 GMT -5
BTW ya'll its not any DNA garbage .. Its a creation made by PUR water and funded by the CDC to condense small fibers in a catchup like package that when pored into filthy water .. the fibers are created to attract .. yup.. bugs, bacteria, fungus ..... WE don't have Lyme then morgellons the Fibers attract the Lyme and Argo in veggies when we eat them www.purpurifierofwater.com/product_background.html Note it is safe to use now , my theory is it was tested on disaster populations in the US and the fibers got into humans untested and that created morgellons ... get out of the SCI FI stuff its not that detailed
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Post by skylark99 on Jan 6, 2011 9:27:53 GMT -5
About Ivermectin: How long have you have been taking Ivermectin? How many months or years? And you still have sores aka lesions? If people were infected with arthropods or mites, a few doses of Iver would resolve that.
About the water filter fibers: Your information does not explain how people in many locations other than the US are getting these symptoms of crawling, biting, specks. There are people in Europe and Asia and South America with these distressing symptoms - and a great number of them have NEVER been to the US; some have never even met anyone from the US. I would like you to respond to my questions and thoughts. I would also like you to back up your statements with verifiable facts and documentation.
About your theory that some contaminant is likely causing people to attract insects and other organisms: I suspect that there is some basis of fact in this hypothesis; many people with Morgellons symptoms seem to have a problem with several species of critters. But the fact that we see people from many different countries with this, suggests that some other phenomena is involved. Pesticides or chemicals from the atmosphere (pollution, for example) are more widely dispersed throughout the global environment, for example.
I do hope moe that you will continue this discussion. There are raised cytokine levels in most Morgellons sufferers, and that is for a reason. The how and why may lead us to more answers. That Ivermectin effects the immune system and lowers these is now understood, But long term use of it should not have to be the case, if this is simply an issue of attracting insects.
Thank you for your previous posts. I will look to your replies.
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Post by toni on Jan 6, 2011 9:50:26 GMT -5
About Ivermectin: How long have you have been taking Ivermectin? How many months or years? And you still have sores aka lesions? If people were infected with arthropods or mites, a few doses of Iver would resolve that. About the water filter fibers: Your information does not explain how people in many locations other than the US are getting these symptoms of crawling, biting, specks. There are people in Europe and Asia and South America with these distressing symptoms - and a great number of them have NEVER been to the US; some have never even met anyone from the US. I would like you to respond to my questions and thoughts. I would also like you to back up your statements with verifiable facts and documentation. About your theory that some contaminant is likely causing people to attract insects and other organisms: I suspect that there is some basis of fact in this hypothesis; many people with Morgellons symptoms seem to have a problem with several species of critters. But the fact that we see people from many different countries with this, suggests that some other phenomena is involved. Pesticides or chemicals from the atmosphere (pollution, for example) are more widely dispersed throughout the global environment, for example. I do hope moe that you will continue this discussion. There are raised cytokine levels in most Morgellons sufferers, and that is for a reason. The how and why may lead us to more answers. That Ivermectin effects the immune system and lowers these is now understood, But long term use of it should not have to be the case, if this is simply an issue of attracting insects. Thank you for your previous posts. I will look to your replies. Ditto, I sure agree WR.
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Post by skylark99 on Jan 6, 2011 12:01:48 GMT -5
I also wanted to add, mo, that I also took doxycycline for a long time. The first two weeks gave a lot of relief, but after that, the biting itching, stinging and crawling started back up. I continued with it for another 8 months, and it seemed to do little. Eventually, the white worm-type things evolved into what look like mites or some sort of arthropods. This has been on-going for months and sometimes there are so many pouring from my scalp that they literally litter the floor like coffee grounds. Yesterday, in a panic, I vacuumed my head -for hours! At one point, there were so many of them pouring out and crawling down my neck through my clothes that a short while later, when I took my top off, it looked as though a pepper shaker had exploded in my shirt. Today after hot laundering and drying, that garment is still full of them. I am all for figuring out what this is, I have had just about enough of it now. Honestly, it is so intense, that I am very surprised that I am still sane!! So, come back with some responses, if you know what is going on and how to get over this horror, do tell. Thanks!
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