|
Post by southcity on May 23, 2006 21:18:10 GMT -5
Hello all,
a few weeks back I posted on how to spot dis information specialists, have you seen the spin these people are trying to associate with this? First let me say that I find it entirely possible that these two are somehow associated, but this does not matter as far as the uninfected general public is concerned. To associate a medical condition with the issue of chemtrails is an attempt to discredit this illness and us. All you have to do to see these efforts is to log into a few of the discussion forums talking about this illness and pay attention to how the chemtrail issue is being pushed. London I am not targeting you now, nor was I before. Those I speak of are active in a large number of different forums under different names and are really pushing the chemtrail connection as well as alien connections etc etc. These efforts must be discouraged and denied as having any provable connection, if they succeed with these efforts, it will set this issue back and god only knows for how long. Do not forget that industry is defending this issue and to keep an eye out for these people. When you spot them, politely debunk them and send them back to where they came.
Southcity
|
|
|
Post by bannanny on May 23, 2006 23:24:49 GMT -5
South......
Why is it that you think this about chemtrails? I can see where there could be a connection, and I've said so. I've always had alot of respect for everything you say and I always will, but I feel I've been targeted here and for reasons I don't understand. Please tell me why you're so against this kind of theory.............
Love ~~~bannanny
|
|
|
Post by Agent Barry M on May 23, 2006 23:30:36 GMT -5
I have to agree that I don't think chemtrils are the prime suspect here... Those are primarily for atmospheric UV/heat shielding. Adverse health effects are simply "collateral damage." But, I'm not sure they include Morgs...although I can't say for sure at all.
|
|
|
Post by 2 SOUTH on May 24, 2006 2:36:47 GMT -5
Well South,
I'm glad you're not tartgeting me. but I have to say.....I'm at a loss then if it is not the aerosolination (SP?) of the microorganisms.
I thought that was why Tam was discussing the F-16 jets......so what do you think? Will you please contact him and tell him he is needed?
Thanks -
Lodnon
|
|
|
Post by south on May 24, 2006 3:12:48 GMT -5
South...... Why is it that you think this about chemtrails? I can see where there could be a connection, and I've said so. I've always had alot of respect for everything you say and I always will, but I feel I've been targeted here and for reasons I don't understand. Please tell me why you're so against this kind of theory............. Love ~~~bannanny Hi Bannanny, I was not targeting you at all. And there may be a connection, but regardless if there is, associating this illness with something the majority of the public see's as conspiracy theory is the problem. People are conventional consistantly shy from activist type issues. Stick with the biology of this illness and focus on that. if there any other relevant connections with chemtrails or what have you, they will come out in time. Word association is very powerful and to stay as non conspiratorial is best. Many will say the answer given by the video is just that, to which I would like say that I am quite certain of validity of his work, and also the reasons for his ways of distributing information. Without doubt he is one very smart person. What I suggest to do when you find yourself in a discussion that heads in that kind of direction, it to point out the probable reality that, like it or not, is coming to a neighborhood near them soon, if not already there. Such as this email sent to me yesterday from an uninfected person who is very concerned. """"""select the worst pictures you can find...the most triadic ones > that > > will shock the hell out of people and promise them its coming to a theater > near them...or a motel (that will send chills up the scale as the motel > industry can not afford that nor can the huge chains in Los Vegas)...it > must > > be stopped and understood before it contaminates the nation's > motel/hotel/theater/bus/airline/cleaning & service union industries(HERE > IS > YOUR ALLY! THE UNION THAT CLEANS HOTELS AND MOTELS IS YOUR BEST ALLIE AS > THEIR MEMBERS WILL BE INFECTED BEFORE ANYONE ELSE ON A MASSIVE SCALE! YOU > NEED TO CONTACT THEM!)..that will get them moving pronto...put them on the > spot...pile it on the immigration issue CAREFULLY...use everything you can > to mobilize this issue until its thought about when sitting on any fabric > covered chair in America...every bus seat....every theater seat...is a > possible vector AND IT CAN NOT BE CURED as far as anybody knows.. and the > CDC has ignored it for more political high profile issues that may never > happen.. These types of issues are dificult to think about but very true and seem much more relevant as these things will happen whether its figured out whats causing it or not. Scary how big an issue this truly is. South
|
|
|
Post by ukguy guest on May 24, 2006 4:39:15 GMT -5
Gotta say, I'm with South on this one.
Think how big the leap of faith is for people to listen without prejudice and be able to say 'Something is happening here'. It goes against all prior experience and at times common sense.
In the face of all the mis-info out there about a this disease, the authorities and the public are starting to listen, meaning all your efforts and those of MRF and Dr Wymore are winning hearts and minds.
If this disease is then linked with conspiracy theories then all will be lost in gaining the attention of the public AND the relevant authorities. I am not saying that what is implied by chemtrail theories is wrong, it's just that as soon as you start to mention 'conspiracy' and black-ops then we'll lose credibility with the people who matter.
As soon as people hear 'CONSPIRACY' they'll stop listening.
To everyone who has researched the Chemtrails issue: please don't think I'm debunking any beliefs you may have about this or the research you have conducted.
Just think about the reaction from the first person you tried to explain this disease to and the disbelief you were faced with. Now imagine trying to explain Chemtrials to them in the very next sentence.
Just my opinion.
Ukguy
|
|
|
Post by Aherah aka Linda on May 24, 2006 10:12:27 GMT -5
I'm with you too South. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the chemtrail theory, though I don't dispute that there may be something there. It's enough for us to have to prove that Morgellons is a real disease; let's not take on the chemtrail phenomena to boot. One thing at a time. If there is a chemtrail link, we'll approach that topic after people start getting some help. We don't want to take on more than will do us any good right now. Stick to what we know we know--that we are sick.
|
|
erika
Full Member
Posts: 186
|
Post by erika on May 24, 2006 10:44:13 GMT -5
I have thought the same thing southcity.. People need to be able to relate .. we have to focus on getting the medical community to fix our bodies
|
|
|
Post by glennb on May 24, 2006 10:45:33 GMT -5
Southcity,
I am one person who does believe that the chemtrails are very possibly related to morgellons. Agent Barry M says that chemtrails are for shielding yet researchers have repeatedly found odd things like human blood cells,virally mutated molds and fungi and genetic markers as well as fibers in the chemtrail dust. What do those things have to do with shielding?
When one poster urges other posters to attack and discredit a fellow posters point of view....well I find that a little out of line. You can think what you think and say whatever you want to say and if you disagree with me fine, but what is going on with urging others to adopt your views and attack as well? Let people think for themselves.
There has been extraordinarily high levels of barium in the atmosphere for years now and we are breathing it. Recent research from carnicom shows atmospheric barium levels to be higher by a factor of 8 than what is allowed by Environmental Protection Agency guidelines. Barium, in a dose related manner shuts down the immune systems T-4 cells, effectively suppressing immunity. The chemtrails are loaded with exotic, virally mutated molds and fungus that we are also breathing. I believe a large part of our problem relates to fungal infections, so in my mind there is a possible fungal connection to the chemtrails. Then there are the cationic polymer fibers, another chemtrail ingredient that Dr Michael Castle has stated are known to cause skin lesions. And then there are the microscopic photos of some of these fibers showing that the fibers have little fluid filled sacs with barbs on them. What is in these sacs that look like miniature delivery systems for an unknown substance? The chemtrails also contain EDB, highly toxic and also known to cause suppressed immunity and skin lesions.
Most of the people suffering from Morgellons have come down with this affliction in the same time frame that the chemtrail spraying has been going on (since approx 1997- till current).
So with all due respect I think there are several important points about the chemtrails that could very possibly be involved in our disease. If nothing else the immune suppressing qualities of atmospheric barium and EDB could be responsible for suppressing immunity to the point that makes some of us more susceptible to getting Morgellons or having a full blown case versus a mild case of it.
I made a couple of chemtrail related posts on the old SP board that is now closed.
Alot of people are concerned about chemtrails and are posting info about them on the Internet. It is a matter of global concern and hundreds of anti chemtrail web pages have sprung up. Represented countries include France, Germany, Iceland, Canada, England, Croatia, Norway, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Mexico, The Netherlands and others.
Agent Barry speaks so lightly of the "collateral damage" caused by the chemtrails. The collateral damage includes death, suffering and illness being visited on the entire global population. Asthma and other respiratory/pulmonary illnesses have skyrocketed since the chemtrail operations started. Scientific research has proven over and over again that ANY increase in airborne particulate matter causes a corresponding increase in the death rate of the exposed population. Infant mortality goes up, death from stroke, heart attack and respiratory illnesses go up and this isn't even beginning to address the scope of problems caused by inhaled nanoparticulates of barium and aluminum entering the bloodstream and ending up in the liver or brain. A Pandora's box of health problems results.
And still, there are other issues to consider; the insulating qualities of our atmosphere have been drastically reduced by the chemtrails and the electrical conductivity of the soil has been increased causing plant life to be stressed. Chemtrails are having a negative impact on every living thing on this planet, animals, plants and us! Agent Barry, is this acceptable collateral damage?
In my opinion chemtrails are an immense crime against humanity, an atrocity against nature and the global population.
Southcity, if someone is posting about morgellons and chemtrails under different names on different boards pray tell how you would know this unless you are in a position to have access to the kind of snooping equipment reserved for certain government employees?
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on May 24, 2006 11:10:56 GMT -5
hi glenn,
South puts an incredible amount of work into leadership and 'heads up" aspects here and always has; he is offering an insight here about what is happening. Have you investigated these other forums and seen the changing level of activity and style behind the posts?
There are other methods to discern what he is pointing out here and can be found out by other means than what you state as the method involved in this discovery.
South is not remotely the kind of individual who would try to control peoples freedom of speech. Not in the least way.
South is talking about political climate, spin and TIMING.. Like Ukguy states.. how about discussing chemtrails in the following sentence.
It's timing.
I know glennb, you are relatively new on this forum, I want you to know, I am very proud of Southcity's efforts, courage and insights.
spec
|
|
|
Post by glennb on May 24, 2006 11:49:56 GMT -5
Thank you for your insights Spec. I have been a little suspicious of the posts suggesting alien involvement myself, yet I feel whoever is making them has a perfect right to do so. And anyway how do we know for sure that aliens didn't make this thing. Sounds crazy, I know it does. Even though I think it is much more likely that this pathogen originated in biolabs right here on Earth I am keeping an open mind to all possibilities at this point.
I have not recently visited any other boards where I have seen chemtrails/ morgellons discussed, with the exception of the discussion board at carnicom, and yes there has been some discussion there about the possibility of the chemtrail fibers and our fibers being related but this has been a possibility of ongoing concern for some time now.
I have enjoyed reading southcity's intelligent and well-written posts since I joined this board. But when I see a poster urging others to debunk a specific idea being discussed by other posters it just strikes me the wrong way. I still say let people think for themselves. Nobody here needs to offer a blanket statement urging everyone to debunk certain posters for expressing a particular opinion.
I would not have had a problem with southcity's post if it had just stopped at saying he/she thought that some of those talking about chemtrails/morgellons were involved in promulgating dis info and spin. What hit me the wrong way was the suggestion that others on the board should jump on anyone posting these thoughts and discredit or debunk them.
|
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on May 24, 2006 12:24:02 GMT -5
Hi glennb, ooops, I mean Princess Chemtrail, I think most of us tend to think just that way on this forum, let each speak their mind, whatever it may be. I am sure you see what is going on here, In fact, was it you who posted about spin before in another post?... By the way, woman, (you are a woman RIGHT? ) you can really lay it on the line! ..and I don't think South means to direct anyone in an attack. This is more like a defense maneuver. We can't let these organized and paid efforts by some pull us apart. There are a lot of people out there who stand to lose $$$ big time and would stop at nothing to "set us back 10 years" in our efforts. They set us back, this epidemic spreads and spreads.. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.. not just $$$. Strategy, we need to hang together. That's what we have to work with. Timing.. Chemtrails, oopps, almost spelled it ChemTRIALS must be ESP..seeing future newspaper headlines again.. are gonna have their day. spec
|
|
|
Post by skytroll on May 24, 2006 12:58:41 GMT -5
South,
I have to agree with Glennb here, even though, I know what you are saying too. One thing at a time, however, Carnicom and Bearden are quite credible, Will Thomas and Mike Castle are, as is Jon Rappaport. And, there are many more.
Freedom of speech, is only free if used. Even if these folks are wrong, you will see who is honest, after a while, it will show in the cards. Damage control becomes very evident.
I was in Livermore when Teller came up with the particle idea. It began out there and I believe the fire in Oakland had something to do with it. Livermore has had many releases in the past. Morgellons first was noticed in California. My mother lived in Livermore and she had this stuff coming out of her skin, was labeled with Alzheimers, but, that is a synonym for many things that affect the brain, and prions are also associated with Mad Cow Disease, variant CJD, also similar to ALS, MS etc, all caused by viruses or bacteria or worms or sensing proteins and or quorum sensing bacterias which incorporate easily into our skins.
I noticed the skies with streaks in 1992 as I was flying out of Oakland. So, for me I cannot discredit these fine researchers.
I too, though think as you say it was a release, and this could be part of it or just could be another release, just like the phorid flies, so there are other things going on.
Carnicom has had fibers removed from his gums. It is recorded. Biolevel 3 labs are right in our midst. There is a bigger scheme going on that includes many facets. We are also looking at the bottom line.
It is the secrecy of it all that requires us to question it. As does the Tam Tam secrecy, but, there are reasons for both.
It is one theory, we have not reached a hypothesis on any of this. Tam Tam's is theory unless he has proof, unless observations are recorded and documented.
Carnicom and Bearden have documented proof.
I am not dissing Tam Tam's theory at all, in fact it is first on my list of theories. I believe there are about 6 theories.
Until someone comes forward and tells us what has happened in these labs, and what is in the chemtrails, how dangerous gm foods are, how dangerous the "novel organisms" are in relation to evolution, how free energy is being used unbeknown to us, how if there are alien species, is it true or not, is there really global warming or is this a hoax, have magnetic fields in the earth shifted, is the sun throwing off flares, has artificial life made a debut?
Any and all of these questions have not been truly answered by those who seem to be the most intelligent folks on earth. Why do they not talk to the people, directly?
Our well being is not of importance to the medical field, for some reason. Delusional has been used before, for excuses for lobotomies, so these folks if they have our best interest at heart, would be forthcoming in any releases, any "novel organisms" that would effect mankind.
That is my take on this, and we all need to think outside of just one box. We are after cause here, which has not been done before. We have in the past just accepted whatever the CDC, has said, and we know many institutes, universities have been putting out junk science in the past, and have named diseases after themselves, which are based on misinformation. Many of these diseases are now proving to be bacteria-related, not gene related. There are only a few that are Mendelian gene related. The rest is altered bacteria, too much bacteria, dangerous bacteria being released into the wild, just to test it, and these can get out of hand.
If natural predators and not "exotic species" are used in areas for pest control, one need not alter the insect, once the insect is altered, then it cannot be changed, it will be left in the environment. There are no oversights on this. The investigators are to report to who?
So, not only is one thing happening, many other things are, a race for what?
Skytroll
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on May 24, 2006 13:14:11 GMT -5
Hi it's spec, South is not saying to tell these people.. Oh it CAN't possibly be chemtrails.. no no no.. Lead back to the issue, there is an emerging debilitating infectious disease here of an unknown cause, or as yet unestablished cause and return the focus to these facts. Don't let these spin artists, spin all the frazzled minds off in every direction known to man. Some of you can follow all these theories on this board. Many of us cannot, it's not the average person who will not be overwhelmed. He's asking you to politely remind them that their is no established and known cause, and that research needs to take place to protect the American (really worldwide) public.. Do you see what he is suggesting? We need research dollars and the only way we get that is keep the focus, drag the discussion back on track. This is sales & marketing, what politics is all about. Later, once we get the public onboard, and find the cause, we will line them up and Frisky will take care of them. spec
|
|
|
Post by skytroll on May 24, 2006 13:38:06 GMT -5
Oh I know what South is saying, but Tam Tam's theory is not the only one. If we go the NIH way to fund his research and Dr. Wymore's, I am all for that. No doubt about it. But, how do you explain the flies, in the south? The phorid flies? I think that if we document what we are finding in observation ways, as we have done, then we can establish a basis. What do you think? Observations: wing-like phenomena or is it fungal, algae? fibers, that can be inorganic or organic, are they really worms? what kind of worm, I think the Schistomisasis mansoni, is closest, what do you think? golfclub appearance of the black fibers. the fact there are bundles of fibers Novel organism, because of morphing qualities, stemcell qualities, protist qualities, algae, fungal, even lichen like, seems environmental, Natural, but, altered natural. Has bug like quality: gnats, collembola, fleas, white flies, crane flies, phorid flies, midges. Midges carry S. mansoni Lets look at that. Now this is a Genome Project, what is the intention here? www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_sites/schisto/here is the funding agency: www3.niaid.nih.gov/another in Brazil: what are their goals? verjo18.iq.usp.br/schisto/microarray/array.htmlWhat do they do here? www.afbr-bri.com/Specimen storage: www.specimenstorage.com/Will next look at protist - Chagas cyanobacteria: moths/butterflies Lets go with Tam Tam Theory, while looking at observations, and see what correlates and what doesn't. Trying to clear my head of other theories, just this one and compare with what Dr. Wymore has found. and be persistent with looking only at these things. I have to narrow focus, spec, whooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, but, will do, hope others join in and Carrie, what if we just focused on the s. mansoni? for now and see where these may be in abundance, and if midges are carrying the disease? What do you think? Do you have midges around? Skytroll
|
|
|
Post by skytroll on May 24, 2006 13:48:31 GMT -5
Recent news: On the Death of Dr. Lee Jong-Wook Director-General of the World Health Organization May 24, 2006 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statement of Anthony S. Fauci, M.D. Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases National Institutes of Health -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On behalf of the staff of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, I would like to express deep sorrow for the loss of Dr. Lee Jong-Wook, a valued colleague and tireless crusader for the improvement of global health. Dr. Lee dedicated his life to bettering the health and well-being of millions of people throughout the world, leading efforts to eradicate polio, to offer universal access to drugs to treat tuberculosis and HIV/AIDS, and to prepare the world for the possibility of pandemic influenza. Dr. Lee was a highly respected and admired public health expert, a compassionate human being, and a good friend. It was a pleasure to have known and worked with him. Together with the entire NIAID community, we extend our sincere condolences to Dr. Lee’s family and his colleagues at the WHO and throughout the world. Dr. Fauci is director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Media inquiries can be directed to the NIAID News Office at 301-402-1663, niaidnews@niaid.nih.gov. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NIAID is a component of the National Institutes of Health. NIAID supports basic and applied research to prevent, diagnose and treat infectious diseases such as HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted infections, influenza, tuberculosis, malaria and illness from potential agents of bioterrorism. NIAID also supports research on basic immunology, transplantation and immune-related disorders, including autoimmune diseases, asthma and allergies. The National Institutes of Health (NIH)—The Nation's Medical Research Agency—includes 27 Institutes and Centers and is a component of the U. S. Department of Health and Human Services. It is the primary federal agency for conducting and supporting basic, clinical and translational medical research, and it investigates the causes, treatments and cures for both common and rare diseases. For more information about NIH and its programs, visit www.nih.gov. source: www3.niaid.nih.gov/about/directors/news/jong_wook.htmskytroll
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on May 24, 2006 14:16:33 GMT -5
Hi skytroll,
Everytime my mind settles on even one of my exposures, and I think ahha! That HaD to be it! It lasts maybe an hour and my brain is bombarded by all the other theories and my personal exposures. I'm continually amazed by your capacity as well as London's just to keep your finger on the thread.. AMAZED.
When it comes to the public, we got to him them with THREE key concepts and no more or they will get discouraged and call it a day.
Like:
Debilitating, deadly, kids, YOU! Infectious, Dangerous Origin: UNKNOWN.. need $$$ now URGENT
vote your conscience.
spec
That's all I know. From sales, tell them too much and they get overwhelmed and walk out to "think about it" ..and never come back.
We don't want that.
God, I'm so excited this media blitz is like the Fourth of July Fireworks..
oh boy, they were meant to represent "the rockets red glare.." shells going off.. hope the grand finale is aimed in the right direction.
|
|
|
Post by Carrie♥ on May 24, 2006 14:39:22 GMT -5
I had to go look up midge...that is how bug illiterate I am. Hum...interesting. We had aphids and the year of the onset yes I noticed the little midge lookin' flies. But...S. Mansoni is not here...perhaps. Or perhaps we are dealing with tons of flukes. I don't know Skytroll. I am so glad to see you are interested...really...more than you know.
But...I do have to say...I promise this has nothing to do with my thoughts on Chemtrails just like I mentioned to Aherah on another thread...even thought I may be guilty myself of doing what I think we should not do.
I went over to that blog spot and tried to chop them up because they were making me mad. I didn't say I've got worms in my skin but I did imply what I think is causing my disease. Anyway...my impression of the thread and what Spec is say has nothing to do with what we really think or feel. I think today that may be really good policy to practice, especially out side of here on other forums. Folks are going to have a hard enough time trying to understand us for who we are and accept what we are dealing with is real with out all the possible smoke attractions to cloud the view of the real issues we are dealing with. The facts that we have a disease that is torturing us and they we've been denied treatment, compassion and care.
I am so wondering about that blood fluke...are the one's here just morphed from the ones around the world? I'm gonna go back and dig out some of those threads if I can find them!? I've got those issues ya know.
|
|
|
Post by ukguy guest on May 24, 2006 18:12:36 GMT -5
I agree that there has to be some truth with the Chemtrails theories in that for what ever reason, lots of bizarre substances are being released into the atmosphere in many places around the globe.
Any link between this disease and Chemtrails has to be pure speculation though at this stage and it doesn't help in getting the right attention.
I'm not saying we need to get bumper stickers with 'I (heart)' and a picture of your favourite dermatologist but...
The system doesn't like conspiracies. We need to work with the system.
Ukguy
|
|