|
Post by notime2work on Dec 15, 2006 10:20:25 GMT -5
I have been reading about the MP and the benefits of restricting vitamin D, but also continue to find reports that present strong cases for its benefits. I'm having a difficult time sorting through all the information, and could use some help. The following article is just one of the differing opinions I have come across. The Real Reason Flu Hits In Winter - And How To Stop It Naturally Second Opinion Health Alert December 13, 2006 For decades we've heard the myth that flu strikes in winter because of the colder weather. But numerous studies have all debunked that theory. Studies have shown that flu hits the tropics in their "winter" when it's still quite warm (usually during the rainy season). No, there's another reason flu hits in winter. And it gives you an easy way to stop the flu before it hits. And it doesn't involve getting a flu shot. We already know that our bodies produce a lot less vitamin D during the winter. But is it possible the reduced vitamin D levels in winter contribute to the flu? The evidence is there. Years ago, an observant British general practitioner, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson, connected influenza epidemics in the northern hemisphere with winter solstice. So, flu hits right when vitamin D levels begin to plummet. Conventional medicine has largely ignored his work, until now. Just this year, two major medical journals released a report written by Dr. John Cannell, a California psychiatrist at the Atascadero State Hospital in California. This is a maximum security facility for the criminally insane. In his report, Dr. Cannell noted that wards all around his got hit hard with a severe flu-like outbreak in April 2005. None of his 32 patients caught the flu - even after they mingled with infected inmates from other wards. Dr. Cannell wondered why his ward avoided the flu when it hit all the others. He soon realized it was the high doses of vitamin D he prescribed to all the men on his ward. He had found that his patients, like most other people in the industrial world, had a deficiency. (He must be one of the very few psychiatrists that pays attention to nutrition!) His efforts to correct the deficiency boosted their immune system and completely protected them from the flu. Why does it work? Science recently discovered that vitamin D stimulates your white blood cells to make a substance called cathelicidin. Researchers haven't studied this chemical on the flu virus yet, but they have previously reported that it attacks a wide variety of pathogens. These include fungi, viruses, bacteria, and even tuberculosis. So, it turns out that my suggestions for you to have your vitamin D levels checked this time of year were right on target. But now, armed with this new information, I don't even think it's necessary to spend the money on a test. Vitamin D is cheap. And it stimulates your body to make what might be the ultimate antibiotic! One with no toxicity at all and only kills those organisms invading you (not your own cells). Arm yourself with the incredible protection of vitamin D. Get sunlight when you can. Just be sure not to burn. If you are mostly indoors, I strongly suggest that you add vitamin D to your daily regimen. I recommend 5,000 IU per day. I see no downside to this dose, especially in the winter months! Yours for better health and medical freedom, Robert Jay Rowen, MD www.doctorrowen.com/www.secondopinionnewsletter.com/Ref: FASEB Journal July 2006; Epidemiology and Infection, online, December 2006.
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Dec 15, 2006 16:05:18 GMT -5
Hello NoTimeToWork, I'll be back to explain more, I didn't get through your whole article yet, but right off the bat, this hit spec in the eye like a big pizza pie. The evidence is there. Years ago, an observant British general practitioner, R. Edgar Hope-Simpson, connected influenza epidemics in the northern hemisphere with winter solstice. So, flu hits right when vitamin D levels begin to plummet. Conventional medicine has largely ignored his work, until now. A correlation between two events, proves nothing. This doesn't in any way show causation. The "plummeting of D" is not "evidence". Hmm.. did they see if more people were staying inside and breathing on each other because it is cold outside? They have said that is the reason people are sicker in the winter too. Did all these people wear hats and zip their jackets? Out here in Arizona, there is plenty of sun to make D with, hmm... wonder what we get the flu epidemic down here same as they do further north. Anyway, I will be back to write more to you, but right now I have to and take care of my nose cold. Gosh, I must have caught it because I am lowering my dietary D and sun exposure. he he. spec
|
|
|
Post by Orion*** on Dec 15, 2006 18:49:15 GMT -5
This paradox bothers me also. I believe that sugar ingestion during the goodie seasons (halloween,thanksgiving,christmas,new years,valentines day, & easter has a lot to do with it. Nothing clobbers the immune system as does sugar and especially corn syrupe sweetners which is in every thing any more....STAY AWAY FROM HIGH FRUCTOS SWEETENERS. I am even careful of the regular granulated sugar and try to use only cane sugar. Corn syrup ----CORN??? GM product to boot. Our food suply is in deep do-do.
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Dec 16, 2006 0:57:28 GMT -5
No kidding Orion, You are good at promoting that fact that we ignore about how sugar negatively impacts the immune system. That is why we are such a sweet bunch I do suppose! Okay, well they have largely ignored that guys 19 century work until now because they had the "false fear of rickets" onthe side of the Vitamin D lobbyists to keep their product sold. It is proven on a molecular level that lack of Vitamin D does not cause Rickets... So they should NEVER have put it in the milk in the first place. The Vitamin D lobbyists realized THEY are in deep doo-doo.. because Dr. Marshall has recently made public (with proof by the way) of what happens to the Vitamin D Receptors when they get clogged up with this overload. When he told of his suspicions in 2003 to a British Journal of Medicine, he was told by so-called colleagues that they intended to dog his every step. So, being the cool and responsible individual he is, he held back on further publications and discussions of his theory until he had dynamic proof at a molecular level, NOW he has that. Suddenly there is a big promotion of the need for the "sunshine" vitamin. I can remember this theory about how you will not get sick if you have D as long as 40 years ago. My Dad learned this and insisted we sit in the sun 20 minutes a day. As if we were not already outside all day playing. ANYWAY... Remember the D2, the fortified D products, like milk come from plant sources and need to be converted in the body into an active metabolite. Being fat soluble, D2 is stored in our fat cells, so trust me Americans who have shoved all forms of fortified products DO NOT HAVE A DEFICIENCY. What a joke. Let me tell you, I have had a hard time with this article, I know this is a vast topic and hard for a lot of people to digest and here comes this guy with his opinion. Let's remember this guy is a doctor, an M.D. not a molecular biomedical researcher, and he will be lucky if he wakes up tomorrow and finds his pajama pants seat still intact. This may take a few days, as he hears the individual threads ripping. OKAY, let's go Mr. M.D.!! We have discussed the silliness of your presenting correlation as "evidence". Just because two things happen at the same time, does not ever provide proof of causation. One thing did not necessarily cause the other. How is that first example "evidence" that is a big overstatement Mr. M.D., and by the way, buddy, you know it too. Because I know you had to document your research and prove it in school. You KNOW this is not "evidence" (spec excuses herself to go puke once more... then returns)The next intentional misguidance provided to his readers: Just this year, two major medical journals released a report written by Dr. John Cannell, a California psychiatrist at the Atascadero State Hospital in California. This is a maximum security facility for the criminally insane. In his report, Dr. Cannell noted that wards all around his got hit hard with a severe flu-like outbreak in April 2005. None of his 32 patients caught the flu - even after they mingled with infected inmates from other wards. Dr. Cannell wondered why his ward avoided the flu when it hit all the others. He soon realized it was the high doses of vitamin D he prescribed to all the men on his ward. He had found that his patients, like most other people in the industrial world, had a deficiency. (He must be one of the very few psychiatrists that pays attention to nutrition!) His efforts to correct the deficiency boosted their immune system and completely protected them from the flu.
Okay, without seeing these studies, i have a few questions. First, did this Dr. bother to take any blood levels for D of this population of Criminally Insane.. or did he just take it upon himself to shove supplement down these prisoners' throats just one of those breach of ethics type questions that tells me about your concern for this population which is under your "care" and How much? and what form? Did you order tests or did you just flippantly go ahead and by the way, did anyone die in the months following your decision" Just a question, because this is dangerous therapy for the "unhealthy" those who suffer from Th-1 inflammations, which by the way, cause neurological problems.. that just might be a condition suffered by those under your "care" sir... OR are we just making sure those prisoners who will happen to die for "unknown reasons" after supplementation of Vitamin D do just that? JUst a question. Let's remember this is not a controlled, double-blind study, and it was not done on average healthy members of the general population. I guess it's what Mr. M.D. could scrape up though to try and plug his point. Was each ward homogeneous? Or were there other factors involved here that made this 32 member group unique? (Different in some way from the other wards?) such as, since this psychiatrist Cantrell is "Mr. Nutrition for prisoners" according to the article, what else might he be doing? Could he maybe have been giving them a bunch of Vitamin C, for instance. Out of the goodness of his heart of course. Since this is not a controlled study on two groups with a placebo used in one, I guess it is only anecdotal.. like the "stories" told round the world about morgellons, those anecdotal, TOO, but see, if we were Mr. M.D. everybody would think these warnings to watch the skies for chemtrails was for real.. But you know we don't have that M.D. designation OR a LOBBY behind us, making sure we are paid for our opinion as long as it is stated correctly. Were any of these men exposed to any levels of sunlight whatsoever? Because you don't need ANY fortified products or supplements of D2 to have enough D3, the active metabolite in your body. D2 is like a precursor, it isn't active in the body, but it will be stored for a long long time, meaning if you were in the land of the midnight sun, you wouldn't need the sun to survive, you'd have plenty of D in your fat, and these prisoners would have it in their fat too, but nobody took a blood level to see If MORE D would be required to stimulate the white cells to make some ingredient.. okay that argument is later.. stay on task here spec.. the D2 does though clog up the VDR.... and by the way that isn't something that dr. Marshall is talking about that he hasn't studied, as in this article, they say they haven't studied yet this new incredible discovery.. D2 is an extract of plants. No one would ever consume in a whole foods type diet the amounts that they have shoved down us since baby formula/ baby vitamin days....whole foods wouldn't have that level of concentration, but of course our factories produce huge quantities... hmm. D3 which our bodies can produce just be exposure to sun, and I mean 2 times a week your forearms for about 15 minutes. Dietary sources of Egg yolks, liver, fish, are all other sources of D3. D2 is just a mistake. A very big mistake. Okay I guess I can't wait until the next post to conclude the obvious. There is no deficiency of D in our industrial world, about the only ones who would have a low level of dietary D would be aged people who are disinclined to eat and never leave their house, AND people who's poor bodies have lost RENAL CONTROL of the conversion.. the kidney is suppose to regulate how much D3 is available in our bodies, but the infection overrides the kidney's ability to control and the D3 level rises like mad... however the D2 WILL be low, possibly even below the norm.. and the D3 will be HIGH.. due to the rapid conversion is sick people who have a Th-1 disease.. Okay" Two groups, the Th-1 rapid converters will have a low D2 and so will those who don't eat and don't get sun. AND NO ONE ELSE will ever be 'deficient' Please! When Th-1 people take this stuff, they are going to be adding fuel to the disease and get sicker, and possibly lose more bone. Also, the hysterical comment here about this magic new discovery, that they are announcing as something that MAY be something someday .. that is suppose to magically cause the white cells to attact fungi.. blah blah blah... everything that everybody dreads getting.. and an extra fear factor, tuberculosis.. anyway, with a country that's GOT MILK.. would frickin' have none of those things they list? Right? because we are all LOADED with D.. so I guess their magic ingredient that they discovered can't be doin' such a bang up job!!!! Shoot, look at all the people on this board that believe they do have some sort of fungal growths... I guess all those D vitamins ought to be helping them by now if that little "blurp" was credible in any respect. Sorry, I'm rambling I have a head cold. Hope you can get my drift on this article. I still have a few more irritating points about what this guys has decided he is ordained to do here. so I will be back. I want to look up that study on the prisoners but too tired right now. If anybody finds a link to it, please drop it off on the thread . Thanks spec
|
|
|
Post by belikewater on Dec 16, 2006 12:33:53 GMT -5
Who makes money from vitamin D production? In order to have this in so many food products a pretty strong lobbying effort must have been undertaken.
|
|
|
Post by belikewater on Dec 16, 2006 12:40:05 GMT -5
From a googled website on D3:
" ...The commercial production of vitamin D3 is completely dependent on the availability of either 7-dehydrocholesterol or cholesterol. 7-Dehydrocholesterol can be obtained via organic solvent extraction of animal skins (cow, pig or sheep) followed by an extensive purification. Cholesterol typically is extracted from the lanolin of sheep wool and after thorough purification and crystallization can be converted via a laborious chemical synthesis into 7-dehydrocholesterol. It should be appreciated that once chemically pure, crystalline 7-dehydrocholesterol has been obtained, it is impossible to use any chemical or biological tests or procedures to determine the original source (sheep lanolin, pig skin, cow skin, etc.) of the cholesterol or 7-dehydrocholesterol.
Next the crystalline 7-dehydrocholesterol is dissolved in an organic solvent and irradiated with ultraviolet light to carry out the transformation (similar to that which occurs in human and animal skin) to produce vitamin D3. This vitamin D3 is then purified and crystallized further before it is formulated for use in dairy milk and animal feed supplementation. The exact details of the chemical conversion of cholesterol to 7-dehydrocholesterol and the method of large-scale ultraviolet light conversion into vitamin D3 and subsequent purification are closely held topics for which there have been many patents issued (2).
The major producers of vitamin D3 used for milk and other food supplementation are the companies F. Hoffman La Roche, Ltd (Switzerland) and BASF (Germany). ..."
|
|
|
Post by notime2work on Dec 16, 2006 12:43:24 GMT -5
Good find, belikewater. It's always informative to follow the money, if you can find the trail! Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by belikewater on Dec 16, 2006 12:54:42 GMT -5
What organic solvents? Carbontetrachloride? Benzene, acetone? Who knows? Heck, maybe it's not the D3 that's the problem, but all those 'organic solvents' used in the processing. (Just kidding, Spec. :X)
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Dec 16, 2006 18:33:05 GMT -5
Well, since that is a closely held and patented secret, I guess their definition of organic would be likewise, no? This is interesting, they are talking about D3 supplementation to animal feed. huh, I guess those grains and things we grow aren't sufficient? Or is this AGAIN some form of HORMONAL supplementation of the animals to make them grow bigger and plumper and produce more milk. That is my guess, because the truth is the D3 is a hormone and when wacky dystregulation occurs in your body of D.. guess what follows? I have been on thyroid for almost 25 years and this was to correct the problems associated with the extrarenal production of D.. of this I am certain. I quit using thyroid a week after I blocked my windows, it was apparent that I now was getting TOO much, one thing I experienced was vivid dreams as if they were real. This was not something I have ever had in my life, and not ever during all thos years of thyroid supplementation, and dang, the dreams quit immediately when I stopped the thyroid and continued my cavedweller life style. Poor animals, this sounds like more hormone abuse. In our food products such as milk, where they "fortify" the product with D2, this is NOT the hormone, this is a precursor and NOT active until our bodies change it. A healthy person would have normal regulation of the amount of hormone D being made because the kidneys' have control. A healthy persons body will take this extra D2 and put it in storage in the fat cells. The kidney's don't flood the body with the D hormone. Our bodies regulatory processes are still smart and intact. Persons who have "extra-renal" production, as in those with Th-1 diseases, have Runaway production. The macrophages that hide in the white cells make as much as they dang well feel like and regulation by the kidneys does not exist in any way shape or form. That is why we have low "D2" and HIGH !,25-D.. the hormone... The macrophages grab the D2 and produce as much hormone as possible. I have been curious as to where the D3 now listed on some supplements has been derived. I imagine there are other ways, than described here in the process since eggs, and fish, and liver all have this bioavailable form. spec
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Dec 16, 2006 18:56:28 GMT -5
Here is one article on Mr M.D. with more of his "anecdotal theorizing".. I'm dropping the link here so later I can point out the statements that relate to Dr. Marshall's clinical trials of MS for instance. These doctors are tinkering around, they haven't gone indepth. They are drawing swift conclusion without knowing what has caused "improvement" ... ie. suppression for instance. Anyway, I have to go. news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article1525348.ecespec
|
|
|
Post by belikewater on Dec 17, 2006 19:25:48 GMT -5
Spec. if they 'fortify' the feed given to the animals, I assume D3 would show up in their products, ie: meat and eggs and milk. "Organic" solvents doesn't mean 'organic' as in no pesticides. Organic solvents dissolve non-polar molecules, which are fat/hormone/streol type molecules. Most organic solvents will destroy your liver in the long run.
Orion, you ought to look up how "high fructose corn syrup" is made. I thought they just squeezed the kernels; no way. It is gross, no wonder the kids are all getting diabetes, and the cats, too.
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Dec 17, 2006 21:22:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the definition belikewater, so what you are saying is they are solvents that act on something that is organic/biological in nature. Along with the lovely added D3 I'm sure some of those "organic" solvents bleed into our food supply? Just blends in with all the other hazardous waste we serve up daily. What do you think the aim would be of adding the D3, still I believe it is to get more production out of the herd, be it milk or meat...... It's a pretty tedious and involved process to extract sounds like they'd have to be getting some real good benefit $$$ in order for them to bother. I don't know if it would change the content of D3 in the food we eat, I agree it is likely! They want fatter chickens with the hormones, bigger produce.. etc. Kinda like they say a tiny little crab apple wouldn't be "too much sugar" like was intended, but now those GIANT fruits deliver way more than is needed or a body can easily handle. That's okay though, since our macrophages need that sugar to proliferate. &We wouldn't want to stop all their rollicking good fun. After all, Some life form out there has to proliferate. I wonder if this is part of what drives the sugar craving? The fact that the active macrophages grab as much as they can get. In the past, when I was "healthy" (an undiagnosed Hypervitaminosis-D in early stages) carbohydrates were what I needed to supply my energy, no matter what anybody says, I needed the stimulants, coffee primarily, I'd try not to eat all day because I'd get tired if I did, I'm sure I was overriding the effects of the Hypervitaminosis-D, and the monkeying around it does to your system. I would shake like I was hypoglycemic at times, but I wasn't, when I hadn't eaten, even now the blood tests show no problem with that even now. But shaking occurs with the Hypervitaminosis-D. Also feelings of tiredness, so I'd keep on the go, I thought I might even be narcoleptic, I had to be moving, I hated being in the classroom, sit still and fall asleep. HOW MANY KIDS WHO ARE ADHD might be better without this fricken' D in their milk? Why are they tapping their toes and squirming? Trying to keep their bodies awake. I think. Anyway, had to get done what needed to be done each day, all the while the disease (numbers of macrophages) reaped a benefit. (Spaghetti my favorite food). When the levels get high enough, that's when the real fun starts. That's where I am now. Having a sleep study done soon for sleep apnea, and once that is over, down the hatch with Benicar for my first two weeks on the MP. spec I will be back to beef about this guys comments again, I'm just a bit tired from this blasted cold.
|
|
|
Post by veronicac56 on Mar 29, 2007 13:05:25 GMT -5
I am starting to believe that the vitamin d defiencey has a lot to do with this. I was being seem by my doc, and my vit d level was very very low. He put me o 50,000 IU daily. i am still having actvity but for the most part i feel better. I still have "bad days" but not quite as often.
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Mar 30, 2007 20:24:11 GMT -5
Which vitamin D was low? 1,25-D OR 25-D Two very different readings that mean two very different things. Please get back, Veronica. spec
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Apr 3, 2007 22:47:03 GMT -5
Which vitamin D was low? 1,25-D OR 25-D Two very different readings that mean two very different things. Please get back, Veronica. spec Veronica, I'm looking forward to your reply. Please post when you are up to getting the information from your doctor's office. It is your right to have a copy of this lab result. This will perhaps be an important document for you to have on file. spec
|
|
|
Post by belikewater on Apr 4, 2007 0:50:15 GMT -5
spec., All over TV, health stores, etc. Vitamin D supplementation is being pushed to prevent cancer, etc. Amazing how much everyone is jumping on this bandwagon. You know they only test for one of the values.
|
|
|
Post by veronicac56 on Apr 4, 2007 19:09:20 GMT -5
Ummm, I will get back to you. I have to find the paper
|
|
|
Post by kiki on Apr 4, 2007 21:27:13 GMT -5
I dont know if this is the right place to ask but I tested positive for vitamin D(among other things). I dont know the number but am taking Calcitriol(script). Should I not be taking it? My mind is reeling and I cant concentrate enough to make sense out of much tonight. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by kiki on Apr 4, 2007 21:29:02 GMT -5
Sorry-meant vit D deficient
|
|
|
Post by specuelatin on Apr 4, 2007 22:35:33 GMT -5
I'm I don't have more time right now, vivibelle, I will try to get the right links for you to look at so you won't be so overwhelmed. I have way to little time at the computer right now, but I promise I will not forget. Thanks Ms. Veronica, I will look forward to hearing back. Please both of you look and see what the darn lab is that processed and post this as well. Thanks, spec
|
|