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Post by transhumanist on Jan 15, 2007 0:49:13 GMT -5
www.eblue.org/article/PIIS0190962206012175/fulltextIt doesn't really say who wrote it. There are three MDs listed, but only one of them could have wrote it, since it appears to simply be a "Letter to the Editor." I didn't even know medical journals had such things. Is this approach spreading?
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Post by Carrie♥ on Jan 15, 2007 0:58:18 GMT -5
We should stick these all in a file some where...soon as Randy nails it send them all a lovely email.
Even better yet...maybe just send them a link to the TPD that says the fibers are unidentified @ their high temp and certainly not any type of textile. Damn...I thought that nonsense was going to cease by now.
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Post by jwf on Jan 15, 2007 1:03:54 GMT -5
When you reference Koo you're in trouble already.
For a better description of what DOP is and how it is being misused by Derms, please read this posted by Chas (1st Post):
tinyurl.com/yh2gqm
The post by lurker references the old OK study that brought up more questions than it answered because of faulty design and then no follow up was attempted.
Blue Skies............John
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Post by zabrubon on Jan 15, 2007 1:26:56 GMT -5
This reminds me of how the tobacco companies and big factories tried to hide they were killing people with nicotine and with dumping toxic waste in water.
There is someone out there trying to stop us from finding the truth about what is going on with our bodies and they are going to any length to defeat us.
There is wolf out there whispering in the medical communities ear that this is all imaginary. Then if they can get enough doctors and scientists to agree the subject will be dropped and they will be safe from law suits.
I believe these people know they are putting something into the water or food or air or land that is making some of us very sick, but they are making so much money that they do not care. And if we expose them, they are destroyed, hence, the rumors flow DOP.
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Post by Sidney on Jan 15, 2007 12:13:33 GMT -5
"The post by lurker references the old OK study that brought up more questions than it answered because of faulty design and then no follow up was attempted."
Blue Skies............John
The NPA study took place at the State of Oklahoma Department of Health under the guidance and protocol established by the medical people involved including Dr. Michael Crutcher who at the time was the epidemiologist for the State of Oklahoma and is now Commissioner of Health. (Medical Doctor as well as a Masters Degree in Public Health)
The skin scrapings were taken by Dr. Neculai Dulceanu, Head of the Department of Parasitology at a large College of Veterinary Medicine in Iasi, Romania, and his daughter, Dr. Cristina Terinte. (medical doctor and pathologist)
The purpose of the Study was not to draw blood, collect stool specimens, biopsy skin, or perform any invasive procedure other than to collect skin scrapings and photograph them.
Faulty Design? Interesting observation considering no other organization has attempted a study of any kind, certainly not one at a State Department of Health under the guidance of an Epidemiologist - Medical Doctor who furnished not only the facility in which the study was held, but the furnishings and equipment necessary to make the study possible.
Do you honestly believe Dr. Crutcher would have signed on as a co-author of the NPA publication if he didn't believe in it? Hardly!
The only "flaw" of which I'm aware is that actual specimens were photographed, but not saved.
Follow up? I'd love to see a follow up study. Bring it on and I'm sure you'll find plenty of willilng participants.
The problem here seems to be the continued crusade to slime the Oklahoma study and subsequent publication.
I had to laugh the other day when I received an email from Belgium's Frans Janssens suggesting the reason we are afflicted with this skin condition is because Americans are fat and eat out too much. I guess I should find the email and give you a direct quote. Watch this space!
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Post by eubie on Jan 15, 2007 12:23:16 GMT -5
"The problem here seems to be the continued crusade to slime the Oklahoma study and subsequent publication." Fill me in..what crusade.? I havent seen or heard much mention of the study in a while. You said yourself that Dr Wymore contacted the NPA himself.
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Post by prevenge on Jan 15, 2007 14:39:29 GMT -5
the doctors of this country are masking something huge. it may or may not work with parasites. parasites may be a side-symptom of a cocktail of things that we've acquired. perhaps we have to have lowered immune systems or a phantom virus akin to hiv, that allows this thing to proliferate. in my mind the closest thing this draws parallels to .. is some sort of holographic bugging device to transmit information to and from our bodies to a recieving base. the gold tips are akin to holographic bio-sensors that have been in development for years.
oh but that all would be off the wall and wacko theorizing. you got any better ideas? plausability has no reign in our experience.
anyone that thinks they have a grip on what is currently the surface or cutting edge of black operations technology is naive beyond words.
-M
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Post by grsue on Jan 16, 2007 1:46:32 GMT -5
I disagree with you that this is something of which doctors are aware and I certainly don't think that it is some sort of covert device. I do think that it is something that has been introduced via birds, mice, or world travelers,that is spreading like wildfire.
A relative of mine in another state, whom I have not seen in many years , told me today that she has these strange itchy, scabby sores on her that just appeared out of no where and it sounds exactly like Morgs. right down to the tiny granular things that appear when a scab is removed, the bio film, and the larvae like things, the cycles;...Where did she get it?
I read in Sylvia Browne's book of year 2000 Professy, she predicted in about 2008 that there would be some skin condition that spreads like crazy-caused by mites, and transmitted by birds from Brazil. How coincidental is that to this? She said current antibiotics wouldn't touch it, but new ones would(future ones) and that, along with some sort of electrical device (zappers?) would be the remedy. Well, who knows if there's anything to it, but when I got this, I was outdoors a lot and where birds, squirrels, and animals could've carried it and exposed myself to it.. If it is from Brazil, that possibly could explain why these herbal remedies from there work on this--Uno de Gato, Cumanda, Samento, etc. It could explain why others who have had this, and who claimed to have been infected by debris falling on them from a tree, or from insect bites, got it outdoors. Birds,butterflies, geese, migrate and could carry it into the US and elsewhere. Mites could get on rodents, birds, plants, and imported pets/birds. I think that there is a very logical explanation to this and fear based thoughts, such as this was part of a covert operation, just adds to fear and sounds paranoid. That will never help us to get doctors to find the cause and remedy. grs
all of a sudden this will get noticed but there just hasn't been enough public outcry yet.
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Post by jwf on Jan 16, 2007 3:31:55 GMT -5
A better choice of words than faulty design..... limited in scope.
As long as the rest of the body is ignored of which the skin is considered a major organ, I wouldn't be interested in a followup.
The conclusions would again be inconclusive.
Your reporting of independent Lyme testing by test subjects (not the NPA) helped me on the road to recovery.
Thank you for that valuable feedback.
Blue Skies............John
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Post by gezunked on Jan 16, 2007 8:37:28 GMT -5
I read with interest the article in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology. Unfortunately it was such utter garbage I felt compelled to respond. For those interested here is my response. As always, should I get an answer I will post it on this thread.
To the Editor
I am writing to respond to a number of points in your recently published letter titled: "Morgellons Disease: A rapport-enhancing term for Delusional Parasitosis."
At the very end of the article it is stated 'Conflicts of interest: None identified', however I note that one of the authors quotes his own work as a reference for his assertions in the letter.
see:
(2. 2Koo J, Lebwohl A. Psycho dermatology: the mind and skin connection. Am Fam Physician. 2001;64:1873–1878. MEDLINE
3. 3Koo J, Lee CS. Delusions of parasitosis. A dermatologist's guide to diagnosis and treatment. Am J Clin Dermatol. 2001;2:285–290. MEDLINE | CrossRef)
Whether this constitutes a conflict of interest, lazy research or a paucity of supporting evidence I am not trained to tell, but I can assure you from a readers perspective, such academic cannibalism does little to enhance the credibility of the various authors.
Another point I believe that has weight and can be validly made, is that all three authors as well as the authors of the cited references all hold expertise in the area of dermatology. Not psychiatry. As I am sure you will agree, Delusiory Parasitosis, is unequivocally a psychiatric condition and as such any analysis done external of that area of expertise, to me, represents little more then hollow assertions. What percentage of the specialised learning for dermatology is made up of psychiatric training? And specifically in treating and recognising Delusiory Parasitosis?
If however Delusory Parasistosis is in fact a dermatological condition, why does this specialty treat a skin condition with anti-psychotic medication? I note in the case study quoted one of the authors states the patient is managed by both psychiatry and dermatology. The nature of the dermatological intervention, in a case already assumed as psychiatric is disappointingly left unstated.
And while on the subject of anti-psychotics, here's some medical trivia that may not be widely known amongst dermatologists. Integral chemicals in the manufacture of pharmaceuticals and in particular typical and atypical neuroleptics are the phenothiazines. A chemical compound used by the US Dept of Agriculture since the 1930's as a pesticide and anti-helminthic.
Another piece of medical trivia which may be of some import is that the theory of Delusiory Parasitosis was first proposed in 1938 by a Swedish neurologist, Dr Karl Ekbom. Dr Ekbom based his theory on a study of seven patients. For those who are not familiar with the protocol for having a psychiatric condition validated, i.e. listed in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), it's really quite simple, it's based on a show of hands at an annual psychiatry conference. Hard science at work.
The letter carries some factual inaccuracies and some pertinent omissions. Specifically the figures quoted in the article are grossly inaccurate. Here are the correct figures:
1. Google 'morgellons disease' 59,500 hits (as at Jan 2007) not 15,400 as stated in the Nov 2006 letter. That's quite an increase (300%) in registrants in the approx two months since original publication. Would that constitute an epidemilogical significant increase? Surely the world cannot gripped in an epidemic of Delusional Parasitosis spreading via the internet? Some would postulate that as a reasonable explanation, at this stage I'll defer my support for such a premise.
2. Morgellons Research Foundation (MRF) registrants 8263 (Jan07) not 3300 (Nov 06) as stated. An increase of over 150% in two months. This excludes the many people that don't register to the MRF but maintain they have the same condition.) Surely Google and Morgellons arent fudging the figures.
At no point do the authors mention that Delusiory Parasitosis must be a diagnosis of exclusion, nor do they indicate that any exclusionary investigation has been done prior to their preferred diagnosis being delivered. William Meehan, M.D., Ph.D., a University of Massachusetts psychiatry resident who co-wrote a paper about delusional parasitosis in the March Archives of Dermatology agrees, "I would also want to rule out any other problem that might lead to a sensation of bugs crawling on the skin—for example.. .using cocaine or.. .certain endocrine problems, such as thyroid and liver disease."
Perhaps minor points, but if the authors are not attentive to minor accuracies, what weight can the more significant assertions in their piece carry?
And then we come to the tone of the piece, I think anyone reading it with objectivity will note the tone is markedly patronising, particularly the final paragraph. In this context I also want to address the point of honesty in dealing with patients. One of the authors states toward the end of the article that: "...in order to practice ethical patient care and to serve our patients honestly and as best we can, we stress the importance of clarifying to all delusions of parasitosis patients that their condition is not a result of an infectious agent." Is that before or after the exclusory investigations? But more significantly they state earlier in the same piece: "I have established a close relationship with the patient described above by referring to her delusions of parasitosis as Morgellons disease." Would that be an example of ethical patient care being delivered or patronising dishonesty?
Just one more tiny little point before I go. The Center for Disease Control is in the process of forming a 12 member task force including two pathologists, a toxicologist, an ethicist, a mental health expert, and specialists in infectious, parasitic, and chronic disease - to develop a case definition of Morgellons disease. This group is expected to convene in California in early 2007.
If the CDC is prepared to investigate Morgellons further what makes dermatologists so confident they know better?
Sincerley,
Me
'Of all the anti-social vested interests the worst is the vested interest in ill-health.'
George Bernard Shaw
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Post by discovery on Jan 16, 2007 10:13:58 GMT -5
Gezunked...If you were here in person, I'd pat you on the back!! Excellent letter with good pertinent points made!!!
I can't help but compare the CDC's team of investigators to a jury who holds our future in their hands. If they aren't up to task and do everything possible to completely rule out or rule in ALL aspects of this disease, it will be a worst setback than anything that has come before. Articles like this will pale in comparison. It scares me and I'm sorry to sound so doomsday.
I applaud you Gezunked for your well-presented counter-response! Thanks!!
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Post by prevenge on Jan 16, 2007 10:29:05 GMT -5
awesome job
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Post by questionhair on Jan 16, 2007 14:15:03 GMT -5
Thank you Gezunked for a terrific letter - I hope they will read it with understanding and act accordingly.
QH
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Post by victoreah on Jan 16, 2007 23:12:56 GMT -5
Ahhhh! Gezunked! Your response is well-written and hits on so many valid and important points. When I read this article I became enraged inside! This whole experience that so many of us have all encountered is almost beyond belief and comprehension! Reading that article makes me feel as if I can't really trust ANY doctor - they might be smiling at you while at the same time labeling you DOP, but identifying your ailment as Morgellons to your face - all the while refusing to persue a thorough and precise examination of the skin. I DID have one doctor do punch biopsies (not a derm - a doctor of internal medicine) and the labs DID come back (after going to local lab, state lab, and then military lab in Alabama) as an "unidentifiable, bacterial skin infection" - HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!! Makes a person feel real good, huh? BUT AT LEAST I wasn't labeled DOP! I surely don't know what is going on with doctors being in the "know" about what is really going on and covering it up, perhaps there really IS truth to that...I just DON'T KNOW! I also don't know if EVERY PERSON showing up in a dermatologist's office claiming to have fibers and Morgellon's disease - REALLY does have what has been labeled as such. This is all just so beyond my comprehension and I am just appalled and disappointed by the lack of integrity by so many doctors. Frightening - to say the least.
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Post by transhumanist on Jan 17, 2007 18:02:08 GMT -5
I'm thinking a bit about the implications of this approach... doctors using Morgellons as a synonym for DOP. This could mean that sufferers of DOP will now be told that it is Morgellons, despite the absence of, y'know, the stuff*. Some may disagree with me, but I firmly believe that DOP is indeed a real illness. I saw a guy who had it. He thought there were ants crawling all over his body, but there weren't. So... if DOP exists (and I think it does), and Morgellons exists (and I think it does,) and doctors are using the terms as synonyms... this is gonna suck butt.
There's also the other side of this - the people with Morgellons who think they're being treated for it but are really being treated for DOP. Has anyone here been given anti-psychotics or other psych medications to "treat" Morgellons, and if so, what does it do? Do they just make you more calm or tired?
*is it okay to call it "the stuff?" I mean... fibers, etc, all the symptoms of Morgellons
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Post by transhumanist on Jan 17, 2007 18:05:50 GMT -5
Vic, Unidentifiable bacterial infection? That's really... stupid. It isn't hard to tell what bacteria are present if bacteria are present. I mean, I bet an undergrad could do that. I'd find another... person to do the test... if there's anyone...
As far as the medical profession being in the know, and covering it up, all that conspiracy stuff, yadda yadda yadda... I personally refuse to give them that much credit. Most of the medical professionals I know couldn't conspire to make a pot of coffee.
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Post by Sidney on Jan 17, 2007 20:35:26 GMT -5
I don't find much to laugh at these days, but I LOVED your post and am in full agreement.
Ask a doctor about basic water organisms just as a small example, the sort of thing one would learn in a high school biology class. Chances are excellent if you threw out names like Daphnia, Rotifer, Stentor, Radiolaria, Dinoflagellate, their eyes will glaze over.
As a very bright little girl I once knew once said when utterly frustrated beyond belief..."Stupid, Dummy, Do Do and Grunt Big."
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Post by friskers on Jan 17, 2007 20:59:14 GMT -5
Ive been prescribed Doxipen for "DOP" and it really does help some. It doesnt get rid of the crawling but does slow it down ,helps itching and knocks me out at night so I can sleep. Thats on a low dose. Higher dose makes me feel so high and out of it that Im just detached from the symptoms but they are still there. I went cold turkey and went off the drug for 3 days and morg symptoms went wild , so i went back on. Its actually a God send for me but does have some bad side effects like weight gain, foggyness and slowed reaction time,and decreased libido( luckily for you guys :-*Frisk
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Post by discovery on Jan 17, 2007 23:23:13 GMT -5
Friski... I was also prescribed doxepin and never got it filled. I know we already discussed this before and there were some who felt it didn't help, but now I remember that you were the one who felt it did and I may follow suit. Thus far, I take Benadryl at night in order to sleep and I'm still using the Eurax faithfully. I really think Eurax is the BEST topical I've found. The only thing that bothers me is when you said you went cold turkey off the doxepin and the symptoms went wild. I'm scared of anything that may accentuate the bad if you try to wean off it. It would be nice to take the edge off but I don't want to be on something forever. The derm told me he was prescribing the doxepin in order to help with the itching. It's a topical antihistamine but I don't think that applies to systemic but may be wrong. Judging by your experience with it, maybe it IS antihistaminic systemically too. What to do?!!
Sidney.... thanks for the laugh! That's a mouthful but covers it all!!! Smart little girl!! ha,ha!!
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Post by friskers on Jan 17, 2007 23:52:07 GMT -5
im glad you asked because i do feel its extreemly addicting but doctors wont tell you that. The internets full of people complaining how sick they feel trying to get off antidepressants and cant, even when they try to wean off. But in my case my morgies were so severe at one time I would gladly have a drug addiction than endure the crawling symptoms. i take orally 25 mill a night. Now your talking about a topical , that is probably very different, i have never tried that but it sounds alot safer. :-*Frisk
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