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Post by rickndebby on Jul 23, 2005 0:30:01 GMT -5
Thanks Chem...LOL...As if I didn't have enough in my research to think about....However after checking out " collembola " I find myself looking in all directions...I found some very interesting reading at www.headlice.org/news/2004/pr071204.htm It refered me to a study published by the National Pediculosis Association in Needham, Mass The basics of the study dealt with people just like us that have been through the permithin treatments and such....All of the participants in the study have been diagnosed as delusional.... It appears that there are forms of collembola that are microscopic and fit the profile of our critters.....Now I'm really confused....Photos of their collembola are or it seems to be what I have observed under my scope.....Since you brought it up Mr. Chem what do you think???
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Post by Chemist G on Jul 23, 2005 0:58:03 GMT -5
I've read all that and seen the videos and TV spots. In my professional opinion I believe they are implicated in about half the cases I read about on this forum. I think they are an opportunistic secondary infecting organism with some symbiosis to either Lyme or Pseudomonas maltophilia that is causing the Morgellons. Which comes first tho - the chicken or the egg? And why don't they die off with Lindane or Premethrin?
My head was racing with ideas on how to tie all this together but it's not worth the effort. What is, is knowing the weakness and we know antibiotics seem to rid all of the symptoms so I'm concentrating on the bacterial side and I think I've found some answers.
One thing is for sure - I can tell you this without a doubt: You all look at all of this and go WTF!? Better get a doctor or scientist who can help me because they'll know what to do... and, being a scientist myself, I sit here with my Olympus CX-21 pro scope and go WTF!? No one knows what exactly we're looking at SO you'll either get an "I don't know" or a DOP diagnosis. LOL!
One thing they need to do is sample some collembola fluid and culture it for bacteria. Progress is being made.
Cheers,
Chemist G
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Post by ToChemist on Jul 23, 2005 16:32:19 GMT -5
Why not start by having docs acknowledge something is there first, be it collembola or whatever? Collembola findings are published and probably represent many of us here. Why keep moving the goal without benefit from what we do know vs what we speculate. Something that never makes sense to me. Why talk bacteria before they know about the collembola in the first place?
It's one step at a time to learn to walk and definitely before we ever hope to run.
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Post by rickndebby on Jul 23, 2005 17:12:28 GMT -5
Hello ToChemist.(guest) I totally agree with you...We have no plans to do any "self treatments " untill we exhaust all of our mainstream medical procedures....I didn't mean to give the impression that we are at that stage.....We are currently undergoing tests at the University of Michigan infectious disease department...We think that this is the way to go....Hopefully they can give us a difinitive diagnosis.....We know there is something there...we live with it every day...The problem is that the first 2 doctors we were seen by said that we are imagining this....Well let me tell you that it's NOT!!!! and I mean NOT imaginary...The physical lesions and other symptoms speak for themselves....But I do agree that we all must walk before we run...Thanks for the imput....Rick of rickndebby
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Post by ANTHILL on Jul 23, 2005 17:26:25 GMT -5
Quote--- Chem why don't they die off with Lindane or Premethrin?
Because they are under the skin in some cases vary deep and tropicals Lindane or Premethrin don't penetrate the skin barrier deep enough and well enough to kill them off
Then theres the question even if you were able to kill off the adults that make baby's' and the nymph's Are there eggs or chrysalis left behind that will hatch out later and start the process all over again ? I say yes
the name of the game is to wear them down we arent looking at an overnight fix
as far as topical warfare on these critters we should be looking at things that penetrate deep like DSMO infrared and the UV violet ray and deep massages to smash and screw up their world under the skin
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Post by Jeff on Jul 23, 2005 17:32:11 GMT -5
Hi Ant,
UV, rather than infrared, was something I was very hopeful of early on in this, mostly because I know from keeping aquaria that it does a great job of killing critters in the water. I don't know an economical way to apply it to our bodies, however. Do you? If so, have you tried it with any success?
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Post by ANTHILL on Jul 23, 2005 18:00:31 GMT -5
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Post by bb on Jul 23, 2005 18:19:29 GMT -5
Anthill, I also said you are a guinea pig, I'm not sure if the couple of nodules I have been zapping are morgs or warts. The smaller wart(?) beside it is about gone, and the large one looks very rough and dry, but it doesn't itch any more. It used to itch so bad I would take a razor blade to it, but it grew back. I don't know if the nodules would do that, but a wart would.
Anyway, this is some of my advice on using the ray.
1. Keep your hands away from the area where the bulb is plugged in. You will get shocked. Keep a firm grip on the handle to avoid this. 2. Use something like vaseline to keep the bulb sliding around your skin. 3. It will zap you somewhat when your skin gets close to the bulb. You can just slap it on your skin, or turn it on after placing it on your skin to avoid the zap. When you get used to it you will realize the zap won't hurt unless you hold it in one place for a few seconds. Always keep it moving, sliding on your skin. 4. You can use the zap to kill faster, I think. When I first learned about the ray was 1978. My sister had 7 warts on her hands. My fiance' loaned it to her. I misunderstood the directions and told her to hold her hands slightly away from the bulb so it zapped. Her warts were gone in five treatments. We were amazed and she wasn't mad at me for getting it wrong. It does get hot though. 5. Never use your ray longer than five minutes. That is how the bulb burns out. It's not a toy, don't treat it like one or it won't last long (ie. using it for Halloween or to tease people). 6. You can adjust the strength of the ray with the on/off knob. 7. Violet light kills viruses. I have used this on genital herpes back in the 80's and never had trouble with it again. 8. This instrument was used in barber shops for skin problems. Also Ant's father had a doctor that used it on a terrible, resistant rash. Someone posted that it is used by people that like pain, or painful sex. Sorry I don't know what it's called.
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Post by Hope on Jul 25, 2005 0:30:03 GMT -5
"Sorry I don't know what it's called."
Finally a question I can answer. ;D
It’s called S&M bb.
Peace, Hope
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Post by Orion*** on Jul 25, 2005 2:13:15 GMT -5
Hello ToChemist.(guest) I totally agree with you...We have no plans to do any "self treatments " untill we exhaust all of our mainstream medical procedures....I didn't mean to give the impression that we are at that stage.....We are currently undergoing tests at the University of Michigan infectious disease department...We think that this is the way to go....Hopefully they can give us a difinitive diagnosis.....We know there is something there...we live with it every day...The problem is that the first 2 doctors we were seen by said that we are imagining this....Well let me tell you that it's NOT!!!! and I mean NOT imaginary...The physical lesions and other symptoms speak for themselves....But I do agree that we all must walk before we run...Thanks for the imput....Rick of rickndebby =--===-=-=-=-=-=-= Here is something to think about--carry it to your MD in MI if you want. I have spider like vaines on my thy ,inside close to the knee, I am suspicious or these and wonder if they are not morg related. Sooo this is what I did--I took my razor and shaved it of all hair--then spread some neosporin ointment on it then topped it off with DMSO and rubed it in,[you can get them to surface with almost any oil--oregano-caphorated--etc] I then set there under a good light with a high power magnifying glass. I could see these very small black specks start to appear on the surface of the skin, I picked them up with the tip of my pocket knife as they came to the surface. I would then wip the tip of the blade with the black speck on a white piece of paper. After collecting a dozen or so I would examine them under my 30X microscope. Each black speck collected turned out to be a very small black thread in differant stages of unravelling. This in it self turns into a nerve unravelling experiance. Now take this story to your DR.at the University of MI. If need be I will send the paper with the threads that I had pop out of my leg directly to him. By golly when you can sit here and see them come out of your pores and be witnessed by other ppl we have one very weird thing going on. It is time some one with a scientific back ground took notice of this organism and find out what it is. The very big question that is on my mind at this point is , are all of my pores infected by this organism and if so what are the ramifications to my health and general well being. > I have a profuse growth of black specks, black and clear fibers on my scalp also. I believe that this is where it took hold in the begining.[It is spread by scratching with your finger nails] Last night I felt that my scalp was infested extra heavy--I took a large wadd of cotton and saturated it with hydrogen peroxide. I then started to saturate the scalp and rub it in. While resaturating the cotton ball I would notice that it was turning a dark gray --again upon examination with the 30X microscope I find the the cotton ball was super saturated with the black spots and fibers. It is obvious that the clear ones would not be visable on a white cottom ball. I was a straight A student in biology so I do have an understanding about things of this nature... Any one want proof that this does exist--I'd be happy to give a demonstration. > Where did this horror come from? Not from my world it didn't. IMHO it is not nature made--draw your own conclusions.
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Post by Sylvia on Aug 9, 2005 20:32:19 GMT -5
I really feel for those of you who are going through this Hell! My son has this same thing going on with him & we're all just devastated about it. I know there is nothing that is a sure cure, but he has had his lesions heal & itching held at bay by using this body wash and spray. It can be found at this website. www.PetsBestRx.com - www.DermaTechRx.com - PuraCleenRx® You also have to keep your home vacumned every day and throw away the bag. Wash everything you've touched everday such as towels, bedding, etc. and put in a hot dryer for at least 30 min. Lots of other things he has to do, too, to try to control this. You'll find all this info on the site I mentioned above. I'm praying for you all! Sylvia
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Post by spunky on Aug 9, 2005 22:39:15 GMT -5
I think the culprits are not only subcutaneous, but also internal. I am witness to know they pass through my digestive tract. The cure must be taken internally to purge them from within.
I have tried every external skin product on the market, prescriptive, over the counter, and wholistic. At best, hundreds or thousands of these could be massaged out, but not necessarily killed, even with the strongest Rx. You name it: permethrin--Elimite (I don't recommend it), malathion--Ovide (ghastly--please don't ever use it--has caused seizures and even death, esp to children), lindane--Kwell (another bad one), Crotamiton (originally this worked the best to get the worms out--still alive, I think, but at least reports a low toxicity with LD50 > 2000 mg/kg in rats or mice), alcohol (only use grain or vodka--isopropyl is toxic, but no one ever tells you that), Listerine, Zero Lice, Sulfur, Tea Tree, Betadine (povidone-iodine), Noxzema, Ben Gay, Blue Ice, every menthol and eucalyptus product on the market, borax baths, enzyme baths, salt baths, vinegar baths, (now only take showers, as not sure if bath water can sustain and spread them), washed linens and towels daily at first, now sheets twice weekly (still towels daily or use paper), shampooed carpets, cars, furniture, etc., etc., etc., but a full-time working mom has only so much time.
In my case, I believe the larger black specks are the collembola; the smaller black specs and possibly some of the smaller fibers are the egg or larval stage of bug and/or worm, and the largest entity (but still quite small to the naked eye), the round or curved white shape is the nematode worm. Also I have seen the larger fuzzballs in black and white--likely are cocoons or yet some other stage in a multi-stage life cycle (which is why I suspect Strongyloides nematodes, capable of filarial forms penetrating subcutaneously, egg stages, reinfectivity after passing through digestive tract--interestingly enough called a "threadworm" in America, even though most docs don't know anything about them). It seems the bug and/or worm are both capable of penetrating the skin to cause eruption; larval specks are definitely in my gut and who knows what other internal organs. I did not see mention of the Needham, MA collembola studies even looking for a worm; if they did, it was not included in their publication. Also, a worm was reported to have been found in the Lyme tick along with the bacteria, but dismissed as a causal agent.
Most pathology or clinical specimen labs in this country only check for two species of worms--there are only a handful of labs that do a thorough analysis--you must specify one of these handful to have a chance of having a parasitic worm infection correctly diagnosed (and usually pay a hefty fee out of pocket).
Whatever this is has not killed me yet--I will fight it every day from the inside out. Apparently parasitic worm studies are not emphasized in our US medical schools, even though in my opinion they should be required in great detail. My greatest fear: even if well-educated in this respect, this is the likes of which has never been seen, sprung forth by our brave-new-greedy-exploitative world with no thought to consequence of introducing GMOs to our environment.
Better off with a doc from a foreign country who has been witness to other human parasitic conditions, an older country doctor who has dealt with agricultural or farm folk that tend to large animals, or even yet, a veterninarian for large animals. At least there may be some chance of recognition as to the symptoms. The city bred and educated white coats don't have a clue or hold a prayer against this, without previous experience with parasites.
The trick is to kill it off without killing the host--too many toxic meds and the liver will pay the price, with no come-back.
This past winter there were no OTC lice treatments to be found in the grocery stores--on multiple occasions. Over the past several years, medical / research journals have reported "insecticide resistant" strains of lice--I think the "resistant" lice is actually Morgellons. The CDC recites a well-prepared response, "We only accept samples taken and submitted by a physician", and "It is not possible for head lice to enter the body" (I told them to take my phone call as their first report). The dermatologist also didn't believe me, but eventually admitted permethrin was "The only thing we have to treat it with". That didn't stop him from calling my primary to tell him I was a nutcase; subsequent visits to my primary resulted in being told I was imagining things. I won't waste my time, energy, and dignity anymore, prefer to take my chances with wholistics after trying (and failing with) the toxins.
Still improving with the herbals and silver, Spunky
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Post by Orion*** on Aug 10, 2005 2:19:12 GMT -5
Ata Boy (Gal?) Spunky---Those A holes will have to eat crow one of these days.. I have morges but not to the extent that many on this board have,,,It is very hard to relate while knowing that every one is actually going through these experiances...I can emagion how hard it would be for all of those dilusuional MDs out there. Good post::
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Post by Orion*** on Aug 10, 2005 2:21:44 GMT -5
We are looking for one cause of this disease while there could be many as well as vectors--this would make it very hard to make sense of this condition. Or numerous forms ??
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Post by Orion*** on Aug 10, 2005 2:30:49 GMT -5
The Collembola was re-engineered to carry the bacteria that causes morgellons? for bioinsect control and it got loosed on us? Golly I've got to tame this mind of mine a quit thinking such lose thoughts.
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Post by Spunky on Aug 10, 2005 5:56:30 GMT -5
Hi Orion, I am a gal. Support for the theory, after exhaustive research from myself and others who post on this board: The nematodes are engineered to carry the super resistant bacteria. (They have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria naturally.) The idea is that nematodes then enter the bodies of crop or yard-eating "insects" (in quotes because arthropods and hexapods are not actually scientifically classified as insects) and carry the super-bacteria along with them, hence killing the blight that eats the crop or yard. What no thought was given to is the possibility of this engineering going "up the food chain", i.e., the fact that some "insects" are capable of biting (and colonizing, i.e., collembola, scabies, fleas, lice, ticks) higher mammals (animals and humans) and vectoring the nematode/super resistant bacteria into them. Weblinks where these nematodes /GMOs are discussed (some may have been previously posted): www.genomenewsnetwork.com/articles/10_03/toxic_glow.shtmlforums.bluedistortion.com/viewtopic.php?t=774www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/bcconf/talks/georgis.htmlwww.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=20023212 www.consciouschoice.com/1999/cc1209/geneticcontroversy1209.htmlwww.toxicworm.com/page9.htmlAnd where they are sold for homeowner/yard use: www.buglogical.com/catalog.asp?action=showCatalog&typeNumber=23§ionNumber=45store.arbico-organics.com/1220401.htmlwww.goodpet.com/library/pharmacyFiles/fleacontrol.aspwww.westlynnvet.com/flea_control.htmwww.dirtworks.net/Nematodes.htmlwww.colehardware.com/hotline/2005/04/fleacont.htmwww.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05573.htmlAnd yet another take on it--control of nematodes (maybe this one we should pay the closest attention to): content.garden.org/toro/pestlibrary/bugs.php?q=show&id=1786Unbelievable but true. Perhaps if the US medical community and companies that sell the engineered seeds or worms were more enlightened to the fact that nematodes cause parasitic infection in humans, this would not be happening. Can we please elect someone to lead our country who cares for our environment and our health the next time round? Spunky
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Post by Guest on Aug 10, 2005 8:51:16 GMT -5
Collembolla feed on yeast. They also feed on other arthropods.
Taking antibiotics causes yeast to grow. This temporarily suffocates many collembolla living on you, causing your symptoms to temporarily subside. However, the only way to truly rid yourself of Morgellons is to stop taking antibiotics and put yourself on a strict anti-candida diet, taking acidipholous and Vitamin C, flax seed oil and probiotics are helpful.
Incidentally, this will also eliminate the fiber production because the fibers that come out of your skin are yeast flakes. That's why they float and can be contagious in people with compromised immunity, and why when you eat sugar it causes the yeast to seep more out of your pores as you feed it.
Get rid of the candida/fungus, and then the collembolla will not have anything to live on. The reason you attract a whole host of living organisms on your body that do not belong there is because you're providing food for them.
The reason you feel better on antibiotics is because you are temporarily making your yeast grow and suffocate little collembolla. The reason you don't maintain your medicinal benefits after stopping the antibiotics is because you cannot kill them all, and when you stop taking them, the little eggs that have yet to hatch will most certainly do so. I believe people say every nine days. Can anyone see the connection, as I do, between antibiotics, yeast, and collembolla?
Guest
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Post by candy on Aug 10, 2005 9:15:37 GMT -5
that s what my natural dr was talking about . but where does the lyme come in . my otther dr is a inf dr said lyme could cross over i dont no what that means if you go to a natural dr they will put you on herbs that you need for your body . I do seem to be getting better penny has help me out a lot .I WENT TO WETWILD ,BEACH , AND A POOL I FELT GREAT FOR THE WHOLE WEEK sun really help me but we have to get them out of are house . GOD LOVES US ALL TRY TO TALK TO GOD HE WILL LET YOU NO WHATs BEST FOR YOU
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Post by Guest on Aug 10, 2005 10:51:59 GMT -5
Amen Candy, I'm so glad that you're feeling better. I've been to wetnwild before and it is SOOOO much fun! My dad used to take me as a kid and it's just a blast.
I was on Penny's recipe for a while-I think that the silver helped me the most because I believe collodial silver is actually recommended if you're fighting a fungus, and it seemed to do wonders for me.
I too have wondered where the lyme fit in-does anyone know whether lyme disease is an actual bacterium that can usually be diagnosed, or can lyme be other diseases that can be identified as lyme? Because there are some diseases that can only be diagnosed after ruling out everything else, and some that can be identified in the lab. I wonder if Lyme can be both....I feel like I keep reading that there is a massive surge in cases of lyme disease, correct? I don't know what that means but I do know that morgs and lyme symptoms tend to go hand in hand, it appears that one possibly has lyme disease as an underlying condition and then due to deterioration caused by lyme, the morgellons is allowed to also grow under certain conditions?
I think that since it's so multi-faceted, given the unusual specks, fibers, and insect symptoms, that it is indeed a whole spectrum of things going on. What comes first or is the 'springpad', if you will, for everything is something I think will be critical to identify. I've been very interested to discover how yeast and fungus play a role in everything, especially how the fungus can attract bugs to you, how the fungus grows when you take antibiotics and kills the collembolla, making us feel better. Since collembolla are so huge in their variation of species, I think that it's entirely possible that yeast can be the foundation, causing the internal organs to be penetrated while the fungus branches out into the body and also the blood. Then the fungus causes problems that are very common to lyme-the numbness, the cystitis, etc. I do not know whether the fungus causes lyme, or if the lyme is pre-existing but the symptoms are triggered or worsened by the fungus-I just have no idea. I think from there, after the fungus has grown for maybe many years, it is exacerbated by a diet containing sugar and yeast and then begins to penetrate the pores on its own, being then identified by doctors as infectious candida tropicalis.
I read some other posts on here that made me think about this. Since we all agree that this disease has many faces, I think it is critical to find the underlying foudation, if there is one, and eliminate it, so that every other attached issue can be resolved.
It seems to me that since we have so much going on, that it appears likely that they must all be connected somehow-I don't think that a person would suddenly be overcome with these numerous miseries without having something in common tying them together. I could be wrong, but that just doesn't make sense to me.
I also am curious about whether anyone has ever done a skin scraping in studies where people who had never been given the DOP had their skin tested for the presence of collembolla.
I wonder that because if there have not been studies done on this, then maybe most if not all of us have some collebolla in our skin, and therefore it would not be entirely unnatural. I think it could be possible that something goes wrong with us that causes to either have physical symptoms as a direct result of collembolla, or there is something else causing the discomfort, such as the fungus that keeps staying among us-and maybe we attribute the problem to the collembolla when maybe they are actually benign.
Guest
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Post by QuestionHair1 on Aug 10, 2005 12:21:18 GMT -5
In the Oklahoma Health Department Study - 20 of the people were diagnosed DOP - 18 out of the 20 had collembola found in their skin scrapings - but it took a while to find the collembola. There was a control group of 10 people, I think just employees that were asked to participate. I believe there were no collembola found in the control group.
QH
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