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Post by Niels on Jun 20, 2007 18:18:41 GMT -5
The wikipedia article on morgellons -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons -- is becoming increasingly slanted towards the DOP viewpoint. It also appears to be misrepresenting info, like introductory statements saying the only dermatology journal articles make morgs synonymous with DOP; yet, the first dermatology journal article by savely/stricker/leitao states that morgs and DOP are different and suggests a link to Lyme disease. Likewise, the psychiatric viewpoint is also expressed. But the recent Bransfield letter is not mentioned. This needs some heavy rewriting.... Seems like the best place for us to "do battle" is on wikipedia -- making sure that the article at least remains balanced. worrying about morgellonswatch is basically a lost cause. it's like arguing issues about a woman's right to choose with a born-again-christian... some arguments just can't be won, and aren't worth fighting, except through political/democratic means (like voting down all republicans, and preventing them from having power). That's why I try to make sure that I have no "born again christians" as friends or aquaintances -- becauese they're my sworn enemy and we'll never ever ever see eye to eye.
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josej
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Post by josej on Jun 20, 2007 18:39:36 GMT -5
Whoa niels.... Obviously you've had some rotten experiences with people who go by the title of " born againers"... but, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater ok?
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Post by skytroll on Jun 20, 2007 19:31:10 GMT -5
Niels,
That is sad, most true christians are just that, they do not lie, they are real and they believe in a higher power than man. You must realize that this is exactly what the evil doers are looking to achieve. Reverse psycholgoy, to get you on their side hating christians.
A true christian does not hurt his fellow man. He/she follows the ten commandments and generally the "golden rule" Do unto others as you would to yourself" etc.
These folks are what keep the sunshine flowing in our hearts and we know who they are.
The deceit is the hyprocrisy that is presented. What is said and what is done are the opposite.
Those are the ones you need to watch. The true christians go about their daily lives and do their best to help others, to be stewards of the natural earth, to carry forth the message of love that our Father has given us. They do not look for favors, or prizes, they do the will of God. This is the difference. I hope you will find that Niels.
Those who use God, or abuse the priviledge of power by using the name of God, or who outright despise God, will be very revealing to you. They reject anything that has to do with God and those who use God as a weapon are even worse than those who reject God.
So, I hope you will see the difference.
Take care Niels,
Our job is to balance the Morgellons Wiki out. That is what we can do. Never mind the MorgellonsWatch, they are not true believers. They use and abuse the name of God.
Deceivers are what we need to watch for, and to balance the pendulum back to the truth. That is our job. They will be out there, we have to use our noggins, our hearts and our souls to know what is the will of God.
We know it is right to reveal the wrongs and then set about to correct those wrongs so that future generations will know that we have done our best, the best to our knowledge, and that we fought the fight for the will of God to be manifest among humans.
This is a higher fight for the higher good. And there will be those who will claim this, but, you will see where they have made mistakes, some purposely to deceive, to get the desired effect, to get more and more to hate christians and not know that there is a division there, that some who claim are christian, are not, are the opposite, but those forces to do evil have won.
So, hope I didn't preach, because I do not do that, but, to point out the difference. The real christains suffer now, always have, because they have the truth.
Hang in there and know we can edit on Wiki......so I see the site as okay.
All kinds of info on there, but, having Mayo at the top is a good thing. The others will be there and we just have to check it to make sure that all avenues of this disease are there.
Take it easy, and know we appreciate where you are coming from, because this is a horrible, life changing disease, and we know that the effects of illness is what the evil doers are after.
It is what this disease does to us, turns us against others, turns us upside down, messes with out belief system, causes paranoia, makes us sick so we react by stepping back in life, away from family, away from friends, away from church, away from the things that were so important to us. Yet, we fight back, that is grit, that is spirit, that is our soul, saying there is more to be done, that is our heart saying reach out to the young ones, hear their pain as well as your own, and you will know what you need to do to make life better for them.
Love ya Niels,
hang in there,
Skytroll
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greg
New Member
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Post by greg on Jun 20, 2007 20:15:18 GMT -5
The problem with the Wikipedia is this. I used to update it here and there. But the MWatch would go in every night and delete whatever I added. This was something that I observed every day, after I would edit.
I contacted the Wikipedia at two addreses I'd gotten from them, and they informed me that "You People" keep deleting each others info, NOT US! If you wish to argue, we'll just delete the whole page.
So, I informed them that it wasn't US actually, but the ////////
They just ignored me. That's why I turned the battle plan, and I stopped trying to update Wikipedia, because it was a lost plan.
All of the same information regarding these two Documents by Professor Wymore, I forwarded to the two Wikipedia Addresses the night that I first recieved it from OSU
As you can see, they have a mind of their own. So, I chose to go directly to the problem and to do battle there.
But, you can certainly try it yourself. Maybe they will be more willing NOW to listen to people like us. But I'm done with them myself.
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Post by Carrie♥ on Jun 20, 2007 20:46:14 GMT -5
Love thy enemy...have pity on their soul. Love them all...wish them blessings...wish them happiness. See where that gets you. I love 'em...I'll kiss them. Let go of the struggle, give yourselves a break today. What is God anyway? Science has proven there is no such thing. We are all one organism here! We are a speck of dust in the vast universe...we are egotistical pig headed beautiful specks of light! No big deal, our arrogance gets in the way. Love them all... ...kill them with kindness. Have you ever been mean to nice people? Look at it...stop pairing off, stop putting up your dukes. They can't fight if you ain't in the ring. Talk to them with your tail between your legs, ask them for their help and their assistance...I bet that'll shut their asses up.
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Post by skytroll on Jun 20, 2007 21:06:13 GMT -5
A christian only fights to do the will of God. Does not fight the person, but fights the evil.
Skytroll
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Post by glennb on Jun 21, 2007 1:45:26 GMT -5
Niels, I agree with you as far as ignoring Morgellons watch. After I heard what they were up to I never even bothered to go to the site to check it out. With so many real problems to focus on something as obviously petty as Morgellons watch is meaningless to me. I am unable to put any energy into even thinking about it.
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Post by jj on Jun 21, 2007 5:35:43 GMT -5
they informed me that "You People" keep deleting each others info, NOT US! If you wish to argue, we'll just delete the whole page. Sounds like that would take care of it and remove the (negative) wikipedia reference from the net. ... JJ
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Post by skytroll on Jun 21, 2007 9:00:36 GMT -5
Who took the Mayo article off the top? It was there yesterday?
That article gave us some credibility.
There are going to be those who say DOP, anyway. So, that is the counterargument, there is always a counterargument, in most things nowdays. But, the jist of all articles, free speech, is out there. One just has to be more compelling.
If the whole page is deleted, no reference to Morgellons will be there. So, take what you can while you can, just monitor it, and discuss it, that is what democracy is.
Skytroll
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Post by jj on Jun 21, 2007 12:04:32 GMT -5
When Wikipedia first started I thought what a great idea untill I realized how easy it was for anyone to contribute anything as well as delete. It appears as if a democratic process and an unbiased, honest debate is difficult to maintain there. That whole concept has been abused as well as wiki's concept for a public information database. QH documented an individuals actions on wiki here. It entailed a constant removal of positive references and awareness for morgellons being replaced by pro DOP references. No matter what was done to replace valid info it was constantly deleted. Almost a year later and it's still happening. There's only so much time and effort some of us can put into something like wikki (many of us did) and then evenually realize it's beyond our control and there are other area's where valuble time and focus can be directed where we can make a difference. If anybody has any time or idea's how we could contribute to a fair unbiased representation for morgellons on wiki the way it was intended then by all means go for it. Wish you luck. ... JJ
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Post by junebook on Jun 23, 2007 0:06:38 GMT -5
Carie says, "What is God anyway? Science has proven there is no such thing. We are all one organism here!"
Hey, hold on a minute, Carrie. God is not a what, He's a who, and He's my heavenly Father. And I'd like to know who died and made science King of Knowledge? INMHO I'm not an organism, either. I'm a woman, and like you and everyone else on earth, I'm one of a kind. A miracle. A child of God. Luv ya, Carrie. God bless.
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Post by Niels on Jun 23, 2007 11:53:11 GMT -5
since I'm a major jerk (and getting teed off about wikipedia bs) I decided to move the morgellons page to "Delusions of Parasitosis and psychiatric quackery" with the following explanation: "This article is no longer about Morgellons. It has become a place for badly vetted, quack psychiatric ideas to metastasize. Please note that the CDC's effort to study Morgellons occurs within the CDC's "National Center for Zoonotic, Vector-Borne, and Enteric Diseases" NOT the "center for delusional parasitosis and quack psychiatry" www.cdc.gov/unexplaineddermopathy/The above site was created 6/12/2007. Perhaps the people that keep defacing the wiki with a bunch of psychiatric quackery need to take a look at the current state of affairs in the Morgellons world. Here is an excerpt from the aforementioned CDC page: -------- Unexplained Dermopathy (aka "Morgellons") Introduction Recently, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) received an increased number of inquiries regarding an unexplained skin condition that some refer to as “Morgellons.” Persons who suffer from this unexplained skin condition report a range of cutaneous (skin) symptoms, including crawling, biting, and stinging sensations; granules, threads, or black speck-like materials on or beneath the skin; and/or skin lesions (e.g., rashes or sores). In addition to skin manifestations, some sufferers also report fatigue, mental confusion, short term memory loss, joint pain, and changes in vision. The etiology of this condition is unknown, and the medical community has insufficient information to determine whether persons who identify themselves as having this condition have a common cause for their symptoms or share common risk factors. To assist in learning more about this condition, CDC plans to conduct an epidemiologic investigation and has convened a multidisciplinary working group to provide guidance on the design of the investigation. The goals of the investigation are to better characterize the clinical and epidemiologic features of this condition and to generate hypotheses about factors that may cause or contribute to sufferers’ symptoms. ------- It is my understanding that the CDC task force is now headed by a veterinarian. When's the last time you took your pet to a veterinarian concerned about parasites and came back with a diagnosis "your dog is delusional"?? Actually, if the psychiatric quacks had their way, they'd want the vet to accuse the pet owner of "munchhausens by proxy" People bandying around psychiatric terms should actually know something about psychiatry. What would the entomologist that keeps defiling this wiki know about psychiatry?"
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Post by Niels on Jun 23, 2007 12:57:02 GMT -5
well that was short-lived...
i got banned for vandalism.
next!
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Post by bugsy on Jun 23, 2007 13:15:45 GMT -5
Omg...what! Too funny. Niels, what are we going to do with you?
Gonna have to give you a sound penguin shaking.
~Bugsy
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Post by Niels on Jun 23, 2007 13:21:59 GMT -5
my appeal to my ban: {{unblock|My reasons for moving the Morgellons page to "Delusions of parasitosis and quack psychiatry" are valid and it is not vandalism. The morgellons article is complete garbage and needs a total rewrite. As it stands now, the entire article is pure misinformation and needs to be removed. The article attempts to incorrectly equate morgellons with DOP when there is significant literature (peer reviewed) stating that Morgellons is distinct from DOP. The referenced articles proposing a psychiatric etiology for morgellons are simply opinions. There have been no formal studies from Koo/Koblenzer/Murase etc showing any actual verifiable success in treating morgellons with psychotropics. However, the "treatment failures" are actual real people with morgellons disease (such as myself) who have been malpracticed on by these quack "psychodermatologists". These treatment failures found out about each other several years after being malpracticed on by Dr. Koo through the internet and because of morgellons.org . In my case, Dr. Koo's malpractice resulted in a three year treatment delay for Lyme disease, which was finally diagnosed in 2004. I'm still undergoing antibiotic treatment for chronic lyme today (3 years of antibiotics). Had I been diagnosed correctly back in 2001 instead of believing my doctor and taking the psychotropics he prescribed, perhaps my lyme disease would not be "chronic" and I'd be cured by now. So I have a very personal stake in seeing that psychiatric quacks do not cause countless other patients to become severely disabled because of the perpetuation of misinformation as seen in this wiki. For more info, Please see my comments on the Morgellons discussion page}}
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Post by Niels on Jun 24, 2007 15:37:09 GMT -5
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Post by Niels on Aug 27, 2007 23:58:34 GMT -5
Morgellons wikipedia page is hate speech against disease sufferers.
Looks like ever since the Morgellons page got unlocked, there has been a flurry of edits which have turned this topic back to hate speech against people with a disability.
Isn't that what Morgellons-Watch is for?
How is this possibly NPOV when the majority of the discussion ignores biology and science, while fully embracing quack psychiatry.
Finally, why is this page named "morgellons"?? The CDC has chosen a different name for this disease. The current page needs to be renamed "persecution and lies against people with a real disease, intended to promote human-rights violations and medical negligence against any patient with a Morgellons diagnosis." A new page and a complete rewrite needs to be started on "unexplained dermopathy." The CDC's "National Center for Zoonotic, Vector-Borne, and Enteric Diseases (ZVED)" would certainly not be a place for psychiatric quackery. Concurring with this, on 3/28/2007, the CDC removed the Delusional Parasitosis web page from the Division of Parasitic Diseases site. Delusional parasitosis is irrelevant to "Unexplained dermopathy" aka Morgellons.
If you feel the need to waste people's time with idiocies like "delusional parasitosis", then start a new page on that subject, adding in all the big-pharma-funded psychotropic drug pushers papers -- such as the corrupt excercises in scientific fraud perpetuated by Drs. Koo, Murase, Koblenzer, Lynch, etc.
Is libel appropriate for wikipedia, because that's exactly what is going on with the "morgellons" page?? Morgellons sufferers are not delusional, they have an infection. Continuously equating DOP with Morgellons does not make it true. The fact that there are some medical opinions that Morgellons is DOP doesn't make it true either. The fact that the controversy isn't even framed correctly suggests to the naive reader that all morgellons patients are nutcases and their symptoms should not be believed or investigated. That further makes this wikipedia page a source for libelous "hate speech."
This isn't just an esoteric academic debate on an abstract subject. the wikipedia page promotes an unbalanced (esp if you start with the introduction or "treatment" portions) view of "Morgellons" as a psychiatric disorder, even though there is strong evidence of a physical and infective etiology. Just the fact that there are two independent university research groups who are finding consistent evidence of (1) never-seen-before material emerging from lesions of patients whose samples were collected in a clinical setting; (2) agrobacterium; (3) Lyme disease; (4) Chlamidia Pneumoniae; (5) immune deficiency. Although most of the aforementioned can produce profound psychiatric distress, it would be completely inappropriate to chemically lobotomize a patient, while not treating their underlying illness. That is the climate of medical prejudice faced by patients today; furthermore, there's the possibility of fomenting general discrimination in society against Morgellons sufferers as "crazy" rather than "ill."
And that is exactly the kind of civil rights violation against morgellons patients that the existing Morgellons wikipedia article entails. It is hate speech pure and simple. You could just as well have a page that equates people-of-color with being lazy... backed by numerous articles and opinions on the internet backing up that very opinion. And you could discuss this issue at length even... but it would be very inappropriate for wikipedia. Just because an opinion exists, even by a professional, doesn't make it true -- "blacks are stupid... Nobel prize winner Shockley, inventor of the transistor, said it was true, so it must be!" Nielsp 04:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
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Post by Administration on Aug 28, 2007 9:47:24 GMT -5
Niels, I'm sorry but we had to remove your link as it was too long and proved to be a non-working URL. There actually is no way we can link to the page you refer. Anyone wanting to access this needs to first go to Wiki Morgellons, then click on Discussion and scroll down to the Entries, choosing this topic.
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Post by Niels on Aug 28, 2007 22:15:16 GMT -5
the bastards are out in force at wikipedia
anyways, here's some responses to what i wrote, plus a new comment. note that previous things i've written eventually got deleted in discussion too... so basically they're censoring dissent.
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Post by Niels on Aug 28, 2007 22:17:37 GMT -5
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