Chitin is right, treatment successful READ THIS

[glennb]

I completely agree with your remarks about some of the agencies that are representing Morgellons. Have been very suspicious of one of them for some time.

I do think it is rather strange that a non-profit group that is supposed to be funding research into Morgellons does virtually nothing to raise funds for said research and has ignored my many attempts to volunteer to raise funds for them.

Also agree about Clifford Carnicom.

[nickthebuilder1234]

Ditto that, I have made SEVERAL attempts to contact these organizations to no avail. I won't mention names, but one of the microbiologists that is commonly used as a reference by these sites resorted to personal attacks on me, simply because I asked him for SEM (scanning electron microscope) images from his studied. He then proceeded to avoid all questions and at one point just told me "I'm not doing morgellons anymore, sorry goodbye". He eventually sent me images after the personal attacks, of course, none of the images had anything to do with the already established microscopy done by Mr.Carnicom.

I was also banned and booted from another forum for simply debating the effectiveness of a "mircale water" by a woman, whom was directly involved in selling the water, and was also friends with the moderator.

-Nick

[bannanny]

First off, I'd better let you know that I'm not science minded at all and I get reeeally confused, so bear with me nick!

In reply to my last post, you said...

[glow=red,2,300]There is no doubt in my mind from the research that I have done that this pathogen does not replicate or grow in the blood stream, it grows on the skin, it needs keratin to form its life-force.[/glow]

Then in your last post, you said...

[glow=red,2,300]The focus MUST be on the blood, it's the only rational approach[/glow]

So that confusion thing is startin to build up a little... can you explain it to me better? Do you think it's in the blood or not?

As for Cliff... know him well. I've been following him for quite some time now and I have 200% respect for the man... and Gwen too. So what's your theory about the chemtrail link?

Sometimes I tend to think that whatever morgellons is could've even come down to earth via the shuttles... there's alot of bacteria, fungi etc. in space too isn't there? It could even be becuz the ozone layer's been destroyed enough to where things that were once kept out of our atmosphere are now raining down on us... who knows. There's just soooo many theories out there... and each of us has our own. But if we keep working together, maybe one day we'll be able to narrow it all down.

I like stevefreys sponge theory alot... I like my own theory that it comes down to the gel. I also removed a "chip" from my arm which 2 other members here did as well. That's a whole other story tho.

I also like toni's theory that it comes down to the black specs, and so on and so on. I've done several threads on the chaetomium too that Jill mentioned. It was the first thing that ever fit for me, especially after my house was tested for mold and the chaetomium, along with asperguillis, stachybotrys and fusarium (to name a few) were identified.

You mentioned Trich something (can't find it now) but were you talking about Trichoplax adherans? I thought it may have something to do with this too, cuz of the colored segments around the edges as seen in the pic below. They look just like the colors of segmented tubes we all see...



I got a pic of the colored particles from a sample of my own that I believe make up the segmented tubes...



and a very good pic of the segmented tubes emerging from within some hardened gel I removed from my hand...



Like I said, I'm big on the gel. If you wanna see what grew on the base of my scope (a researcher now has it) from one tiny drop of gel that oozed from my finger one day and landed there, let me know and I'll post the pics. It looks like a fungus, but it mutated 2 different times and is doing the same thing with the researcher. It's weird stuff is all I know.

I'm not saying let's figure this out, I'm actually more like you in the sense that I just wanna get rid of it. If we can do that, who cares what it is. Then again, it sure wouldn't hurt to know right?

hugs ~~ bannanny

[nickthebuilder1234]

Ok, I can see where I confused you there. To clarify, what I was saying is that I believe strongly that since this is a fungus, it need to culture in an area that is going to act like a substrate, and for a Keratinolytic fungus, that substrate would be the skin. Therefor killing the fungus on a skin level would stop it from dropping spored either 1)into small capillaries or 2)spreading to other areas of the skin where it will reproduce and enter capillaries.

But, with heavy environmental contamination, you are likely also breathing large amounts of the spores through your lungs, so that would be a way for entrance to the blood stream but not a great place for them spore to culture and spread from there.

So treating the skin would leave the spores with no place to colonized and create more spores, however like I said that doesn't mean that you aren't still breating them in. But in that case, the infection will take a different form with different lesser symptoms due to only being a momentary infection and not having established colonies to spread from (example, the keratin in the lungs isn't a prime culture area and our body already sends Chitinase to the lungs among other internal organs to kill allergens).

And when I said that the blood is the key to identification, and this is exactly where Mr.Carnicom has gone with his research, what I mean is that your going to have a hard time finding a spore that's almost sub-micron by just viewing skin samples. It's much easier to view it on a blood level since you only have a few other biological objects in the sample (red blood cells, white blood cells), versus skin samples having a large amount of solid structures to decipher. It's the difference between looking for a needle in a haystack, or a needle in a 100% clean freshly mopped and sanitized room.

As for where this comes from, I have put together several common factors between myself and a couple other persons whom I know in the area and I am certain it's not a natural source. I'm not going to speak about that on the open forum, I will speak about it in private but I don't feel that in my position, knowing what I do, that it will make any difference and might further give a reason to argue my findings as a "conspiracy theory" I will hint though, that it's interesting that one of your samples refracts light like a prism, as there is something in the environment that wasn't there much of my life, but I see it all the time now and it often refracts light in the same way as your sample. Which, is obviously a sign of a crystalline structure but in this case I believe that crystalline structure is the biopolymer Chitin.

Just look up, I don't need to say more than that. If you see something in the environment refracting light in the same manner as your sample, then your seeing exactly what I and many others around the world have noticed. I've done my research and what I have seen is only previously known to be a rare phenomenon, if you aren't sure at this point what I'm talking about, send me a message and I'll give you the technical term of this "phenomenon".

And yes I would like to see the image of what grew off your scope.

-Nick

[nickthebuilder1234]

As for the molds that you mentioned that were identified in your home, that means nothing. We breath in hundreds of spores every day, in a dirty area, thousands. Most of the molds that you mentioned are common household molds and are expected to be found just about everywhere on this planet, but none of them fit the .5 - .7 micron spore size, and none of them cause the same symptoms known as morgellons.

Also, one the ozone layer, yes it is damaged but no, that has nothing to do with what is going on, it's not even worth the time to research. Our ozone layer is damaged but it's not as dire as some environmentalists claim it to be, and there is nothing that far up in the atmosphere that could have sustained life and then just decided to fall out of the sky within 10 years time.

There is intent behind this, don't be mistaken, something on this level does not happen naturally.

-Nick

[nickthebuilder1234]

My mention of Trichoderma's has nothing to do with the morgellons agent of infection, but only with the treatment. That was my second source of Chitinase after working with the barley extract, and since I was already cured by then from the Barley extract, I can't say how effective it was in comparison.

In theory, the spectrum of enzymes in specific Trichoderma's would be much more well rounded than the Barley chitinase (meaning there are more variations of the enzyme to break down more variations of Chitin), since Trichoderma's are a environmental balancing fungus and their direct role is to consume any other fungus or chitin source available.

I have included a picture of two of the most common household molds. In comparison, these would both have much larger spores than those imaged from infected individuals blood samples.

-Nick

Attachments:

[bannanny]

So it's in the blood then too right?

I've never believed this to be a natural source... it may have started out that way, but there's had to have been some mutating and such added to the mixture... definitely intentional. That's a given just by looking at how the CDC's handled this mess from the get go... or should I say not handled it. I know all about the "lights" and the "sparks" too. I sometimes think I'm living in a vortex up here where I am. The ground even sparkles at night. I "see" alot nick... will talk about that later tho. Check your pm ok?

The first pic I took of the gel that oozed from my finger and landed on the base of my scope...



I initially tried to scrape it off... the disturbance caused it not only to attach itself and hold on (no matter how hard I tried to pull) but the colored particles began to appear from within the gel and create the segmented strands. You can see them forming within the gel every time I pulled up on it in the video below...



Look at the resemblence in the transparent strands Cliff Carnicom did a time lapse of too...



I couldn't remove it with anything... it seemed to have crystallized on the base. So I decided to leave it and see what would happen. It started to grow...



and connect...



It took a period of 2-3 months before the base of my scope had turned into this...



Taken at 10X versus the above at 60X...



Once the first growth lifted (longer story) the gel remained permeated into the base... and the process began to repeat itself all over again (without any help from me.) Same growth, different pattern the second time (it also took 2 months for it to reach this stage again)...



Once the second growth above lifted, there were even more "gel blobs" permeated into the base...



The above is what it looked like when I sent it off to the researcher. He called me and said it looks to be mutating again, but he's waiting to be able to return to the lab at present time.

Check out this thread too nick...

lymebusters.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rash&action=display&thread=12505

It shows some of my samples that were cultured. Especially look at the pic in reply #17 and tell me what you think. It's all about fungus I guess. To see a smaller collection of the cultures, check the video link in reply #7 on the same page.

hugs ~~ bannanny

[nickthebuilder1234]

Wow, that's a lot of imagery to absorb at 1:00 AM

Ok, we need to clear a few things up here.

First off, a fungus can't produce a nematode. They are about as far from each other genetically as a cockroach and an elephant.

Secondly, even if you sprayed down an entire room with lysol, bleached everything and doused yourself in purell, chances are that you will still get environmental contams on a sample. Trust me, I have worked with mycology for years and it's very very difficult to exclude contams outside of a lab unless your working out of sterile substrates with sterile spores coming from a sterile inoculation syringe. There are easily anywhere from a few to dozens of different types of spores both on you at any given time and also in the water you bath with.

I will say that they black mold in one of the slides looks like Aspergillus niger, and the others looks like common contams that I have seen a million times. #17 however (the white web-like structure), along with the images from the base of your slide, do look like the correct fungus. You seemed to be very aware of a shimmer and very reflective specks in the strands in the image of you pulling on the growth at the base of your slide. These are a common factor, I have seen these reflections under 200x personally on samples taken from my hair follicles, and Mr.Carnicom noted their existence right away when he employed a method using laser light to highlight the reflective nature of the "highway networks".

Identifying the other contams is likely a waste of time, and none of us are going to be correct at doing so unless they are being viewed at high enough magnification (more in the 1600x range) or whatever magnification it takes to identify the conida (fruiting bodies) and their attached spores.

Like I said in my first posts, identification at this point is novel. It's like seeing a big black haired animal (looks kind of like a bear but your not positive which type) that you know is going to eat you, but wanting to know exactly what genus and species it is before you find your gun, load the ammo, and start to pull the trigger the first time.

Nobody that is high up is going to help identify this thing, and it's probably not highly documented at this point in the first place. It's all about the cure, everything else is just formality.

-Nick

[jo]

Hi Nick,

Great research!! I'm one of the morgies with fly larvae under my skin - heavily infected, pretty much everywhere. Their shells are 40% chitin and chitinosan so of course you're thread is of great interest.

I was gonna try it and am reading it through again carefully. Does the experiment produce samples of the pathogen leached from the skin? (..that maybe unanswerable right now i realise.)

With fly larvae infections the goal is to leach them out of the skin, without breaking them - because upon being breached, they empty all the toxins from within. I say this because you've mentioned the after effect of having kidney ache etc

Maybe folks that know they have myiasis should treat one area to check, to avoid overload of stress or damage to organs?

One more question - have you considered if it could be taken internally?

Apparently, there's a chitin-iodine colour test which can prove the presence of chitin/chitosan which seems to involve adding a weak acid and then iodine which goes violet when chtinosan is present.

Could be useful hey....

Thanks again

Jo

[nickthebuilder1234]

If you have fly larvae in the skin, this is a secondary infection to morgellons, that is, if you have morgellons at all.

Once again, the first symptoms in the first subjects (victims as I would call them) were fungal in nature, not myiasis. Myiasis is rather hard for humans to get, considering the larvae of most involved flies take a good part of a day to hatch and burrow into the skin. It's also rather easily treated with anti-parasitic topical drugs that halt the life cycle of the infecting larvae.

Also, myiasis due to fly type larvae will not re-infect within a host, the fly needs to mature and reproduce outside the human body in order to lay eggs, the only way for reinfection assuming you shower at least once a day, would be if flies were landing on you all day long and have enough time to lay their larvae with minimum 8-12 hours before you shower for the larvae to start burrowing in the skin.

I would not suggest Chitinase enzymes for a myiasis infection. It should be easily treated with antiparastic drugs, if that is in fact what it is. The risk for a classic blood infection and possibly sepsis is very high for an actual larvae infection. Even though they are around 40% Chitin, they are far less than the 95% Chitin that comprises most fungus, leaving around a 60% ratio of other very dangerous biological components that WILL ROT and cause severe inflamation and infection. This is NOT the case with the classic fungal type symptoms of morgellons due to its likely high Chitin content, and the non-infective nature of Chitin, it tends to cause no infection.

As for using Chitinase enzymes as a supplement, they are useless unless they are pharmaceutical grade pure and injected. Enzymes are made up of amino acids and these amino acids are very quickly taken apart in our stomach due to acid content, and turned into different forms of energy. The only treatment method would be topical or injection. In my case, (and as hypothesized prior to testing) treating the skin effectively killed 100% of the active lesions, therefor killing the colonies and stopping the systemic spread of the spores to new follicles and sweat glands, through the blood stream.

-Nick

[ladybug]

This is interesting how plants use Chitinases to protect themselves from fungal infections. Grapes and rice come to mind along with above-mentioned barley.

[nickthebuilder1234]

The human body even produces Chitinases in response to allergens, nematode infections, and fungal infections, and this could easily be a factor in why people are affected with slightly different symptoms and severity. Different DNA produces different amounts of Chitinase. This might have something to do with why my skin symptoms faded so quickly after my first treatment with Chitinase. My body was likely producing large amounts of it's own supply to battle the several fungal colonies that I had on my chest, but when I gave it a little help, it likely had a large reserve of Chitinase leftover to complete the job and kill anything that I didn't.

Interesting experiment that they have done on mice, injecting them with chitin and chitosan, raised levels of naturally produced Chitinase. When they injected the mice with an extra supplement of Chitinase, the blood levels of naturally produced Chitinase once again subsided. This made me curios if eating more mushrooms would elevate the Chitinase levels naturally, but it's doubtfull because our bodies produce Chitinase more as a means of joint, organ and skin protection rather than digestive. Digestive wise, we don't have much of an ability to unlock the energy consumed by Chitin in mushrooms.

This also brings up another interesting point that I mentioned earlier. People who have morgellons, others around them who aren't notably effected tend to have had a spike in respiratory allergy symptoms, so the fungal contaminant itself would naturally raise our Chitinase levels in a way that might aid in recovery once skin colonies are treated.

-Nick

[jo]

Thanks Nick I really appreciate your reply.

I didn't know humans could produce chitinase or in a responsive way, cool.

Everything you say about myiasis is textbook correct. Unfortunately this isnt 'textbook' myiasis. We can prove its related to morgellons, but not whether its primary or secondary.

www.morgellonsuk.org.uk/micromyiasis.htm

On the continual infection point, the strange phenomenon of paedogenesis means the larvae produce live young without maturing.

Do you know if its a water mold or similar suspect listed in the reseach?

cheers

Jo

[bannanny]

Dam... my mind's starting to go completely blank again. Not that there's much left upstairs in the first place. But I have times (many of them) when I have to read one simple sentence over and over again before I can get it to compute. Makes me feel helpless sometimes ya know?

Anyway, I have those exact same mold pics you posted in my own files nick... whatever that means, duh. As for nematodes... the only thing I ever came close to thinking might be a part of the morg pathogen was nematomorphs. But that's only becuz I believe it's something morphed and mutated. Nothing in the link I gave you was done by me... I just sent some of my gel in plastic baggies to kammy. She did all the work. Normally, the only thing I go by is my gut and pictures... like I keep saying I'm not the science minded person you and others here are! So I go by what I see and feel and what I read from others like yourself. It's why I post the pics I do... I figure someone out there will get something from them sooner or later.

The white web-like structure was the first pic out of all the culture pics kammy did that hit me hard... becuz I see it and know it all too well. I'd bet my last buck it has alot to do with morgellons. I know what grew on my scope base does too becuz it sprouted from the gel that oozed from my own body... which I also know is a part of morgs.

I agree with you about the cure being what's important now. But I still want to know what this is and where it came from.

I'm gonna be real honest here... I have a hard time with making up anything like your chitinase paste. I'm hoping someone else will try it before I do... I've become a big baby about doing things like that. So please... if anyone without lesions tries this, let us know what happens ok? I wanna get my teeth done before I try anything that might make me crazy... ok, crazier.

hugs ~~ bannannas

[nickthebuilder1234]

Honestly I don't know much about larvae in humans, I suppose anything is possible as far as different creatures with different types of reproduction, but I just don't really see it as being the primary infection at least not based on the first victims skin, the people I know who had it and Carnicom's subjects who also submitted blood samples. Either way, heavy infestations of the type would almost have to come from the water source because fly larvae aren't exactly mobile or for the matter, very durable in a environmental contamination issue.

As for water molds, you would think at a first glance that it's a possibility but the only reference to spore size that I found for the genus Pythium (which apparently are the only type known to infect mammals) are much larger than the documented spore size of .5 - .7. See here...

www.greenbeampro.com/content/view/1530/44/

One thing that strikes me as being related, is ever since people started coming down with symptoms, we have been losing tomatoe plant, and cucumbers every year and it looks similar to a Fusarium type infection, but once again Fusarium doesn't fit the mold. And it's not just a bad gardener issue, my Grandpa and all his neighbors have the same problem every year now, and he says to me "I just don't know why this is happening Nick". He just can't understand since he has been there in the same house for 50 years without a problem untill the past 5 - 8 years. My parents had the same problem 20 miles away in a different city. I feel there is a strong connection to whatever we have been doused with and this dying vegetation.

I really hate to be the one to give up early but like I said, it's not likely that we are going to find documentation on this genus of fungus.

Another interesting connection is the mass death of the bees, and now the bats. Both life forms of which focus all their energy on eating pollen that's on the top of plants and trees, the exact are where high concentration of a contaminant would fall and lay first. They claimed the bees were dying from Nosema ceranae which is a microsporidia and they probably were, but I don't think that's the cause. Then they said the bats were dying from a type of white fungus that's common on cave floors but how does a bats immune system just give up and allow a common cave contam to take over it's system out of the blue, that's not a cause it's an effect? The answer to both cases is, another, smaller fungus or microsporidia is responsible that's on that .5 -.7 micron size. Not even Nosema Ceranae has a spore that small. But if you look in the image posted on this next link of Nosema Ceranae presumably from a infected bee, as with most of the image, there are always smaller defined spore like objects within the image, that are even causing clumping of the Nosema, just like the red blood cells clump in Carnicoms blood images.

The first step at classification is to have a blood sample, with these spores in it, and view it under an electron microscope. Then we could tell if it's unicellular in nature, if it has flagella or not, and what it's organs consists of. Until that is done properly, on a sub micron level, we are poking in the dark. If I had the cash right now, I would have bought a SEM but that's thousands of dollars that I might not have for years. At this point, with Mr.Carnicom forming an organization, and having people at his disposal that have confimed blood pathogens, I think he would be the best person to witness the samples being imaged.

The next step would be to do a chitin test on those same spores to confirm that they are fungal in nature.

-Nick

[nickthebuilder1234]

Almost forgot the nosema link.

www.stanford.edu/class/humbio153/AgriVetParasites/images/clip_image017_000.jpg

[jo]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the great info. Have you checked spore size of verticullium, botrytis and phoma?

I swear its all related to plant diseases caused by fungus gnats. Time will tell.

cheers for info re pythium causing infections in mammals.

Jo

[bannanny]

Yes, I think this is contaminating alot of the worlds creatures as well as us. I'd read an article several years ago that frogs and snakes were being found dead in the lower deserts (I'm in the high desert) with fibers sprouting from their skins. They said whatever it is it seems to be killing them off. Well, we usually have quite a few snakes in the yard come summer... and frogs as well. In the past 2 years, they've been minimal to say the least. You just don't see them anymore... and I've had to kill hundreds of snakes before. So I believe it's all one in the same thing... whatever it is, it's a killing machine to creatures much more than it is to us. I just wish the people out there who keep trying to play God would stop. But unfortunately, that isn't gonna happen.

[gigi22]

This is my first post to this forum, but this post caught my attention. Nick, you sound very educated and level-headed to me. There are so many theories and I'm not sure what to believe
anymore. It's obvious that everyone may have a different set of problems or triggers or vectors, and I am struggling to figure what is going on in my case. There is no doubt in my mind that fungus is involved, however.

I discovered just two months ago that I have Morgellons. It started from some mold exposure, and from there, after several rounds of antibiotics, I grew deathly ill. I developed severe, systematic candida and as I was trying to recover from that, the morgellon symptoms started to appear. The first thing I noticed was a weird, filmy substance on my skin every time I would take a bath, and then the biting and crawling started, and a lesion developed. I aggressively treated the lesion, but I thought it was a boil at the time, and then the black specks and threads started appearing from my skin, along with fuzzball objects and wormy things too. I have been aggressively treating since that time.

I always thought there was a large fungal component to my problem, as I became very mold-sensitive with the heavy candida load. When I tried cleaning my environment, I would get very ill, and I knew right away that fungus played a part in this somehow. Parts of my skin would react very differently
to certain antifungal products. In some parts of the skin, I would get the biting sensations and no rash, and with certain products, I could rub it in, and get black specks or threads or fuzzballs to
come out of the skin. But in other parts of the skin, I would just develop a rash - nothing would come out of those areas. Also, there are many areas of my skin that has lost pigmentation around the pores..and you can tell this if you look closely. Also.. there was a time early on where I was resting my hands on my cheeks while sitting, and my cheeks started to develop a red rash on them too. I started to suspect that this might be a fungal infection I was seeing...

Nick's post makes a tremendous amount of sense to me, and I can believe this theory, at least in my case. I don't know how this connects with this parasite that I'm experiencing (black specks,
fuzzballs, etc), but I do believe I have a fungal infection on the skin, and this is where I see the red rashes pop up.

I went to get my pale ale malt barley, and I didn't want to spend too much time in there.. because all of the questions would start up. I just told them I wanted the least processed, lightest colored
barley... I said it was for my husband so I could play dumb when they started asking me questions.

I got home and followed the directions. I soaked it for 4 hours. I blended it in my blender, and then poured it through a strainer and mashed the barley against it to get the milky
substance out. I did not know what the cheesecloth was for, and I couldn't find any, so I didn't use any. I put this mixture all over my body.. and rubbed it in on my abdomen area
where I thought I had more of a problem. Immediately, 2 small rashes popped up on my stomach.
I applied more liquid here when it was dry. I covered the other areas of my body and reapplied when it dried. I really didn't feel anything else at first. Then my arms started to sting and
I could see rashes pop up in several places on my arms.I watched as a long rash started to appear on my chest, and some spots started to pop up on my back. The stinging died down, and
I washed everything off after 1 hour. After I washed off, I could see various places on the skin which was agitated ... my arms in several places, and my back was literally covered in rashes.
Note that I don't have lesions, but yet my skin responded to the barley in several places.
I know I'm not allergic to barley, so I'm going to *have* to assume that these places on the skin that
responded is where there is fungus.

I applied a second application 5 hours later. On my second application for that day, I spent more time rubbing the barley in other places on my skin, then once it dried,
reapplied a little thicker. I could tell that the tops of my legs were severely infected. They turned bright red after rubbing in the barley and you could see splotches of white patches
just below the surface of the skin - this is not visible normally. I continued to see patches of red pop up on my skin in several places .. not necessarily in the same places from the first
application - some spots under my arm.. some more spots on my forearm.. a few areas on my back. About a half hour into this, I felt some severe stinging on my forearm and on a few areas of my back. I can tell my hands are severely infected too because they turned bright red when barley was
applied to them.

Nick, I'm not sure how many applications you had to do, but I am going to continue doing this nightly. I was not sure I would get any reaction at all because I wasn't sure if I got the
right kind of barley and I also didn't know everything I might have going on with my skin.

I don't expect this to go away overnight.. but after my first treatment, I felt like I had a lot less skin activity the day after.

THANK YOU!! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
I will report back my progress.

[bannanny]

That's great gigi! I haven't tried it yet but I intend to just as soon as I can get the barley... which won't be until the stage I'm in at present time eases up a bit! I have alot of goo ooze from my skin too... especially on the palms of my hands and the souls of my feet.

You're doing a very good thing for your skin right now... it seems to have had a huge effect on nick anyway. You're also in the early stages (as he is/was) so the sooner and faster you can attack it the more of an upper hand you're going to have. Stay on it, eat right, get alot of sleep... and you'll remain the one in control, not it.

Glad you found us gigi... we're always here to talk, laugh and cry with you! There's some incredible, loving, kind and caring folks here... and we all understand 200%.

Stay strong and I wish you the best of luck with the barley. Thanks for keeping us updated too, cuz it's new to all of us as well.

hugs ~~ bannanny