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Post by JEFF on Jun 29, 2005 23:23:22 GMT -5
I appreciate your point of view..I would just like to point out that i too lost my job cause of my illness..I was ordered to bring in notes at 3 seperate occasions stating from a md that I wasnt contagious..(they pass them out like candy! little do they know) I suffered as I was brought in private mettings with management over and over...once informing me I had handed a receipt with my blood on it to a custumer..Another to tell me to wear makeup and a long sleeve shirt to cover my lesions..I ended up getting fired. for not selling enough extended warranties they said..I wondered too what the future would bring. and lucky for me even after the abuse my positive attitude allowed me to receive the good news from the great dr swartz...I listened and believed in him and took his advice and treatment..which has now allowed my to return to sales..now selling advertising to business in the yellow pages...I didnt get stuck im my depression,like so many do.. I kept hope and won even if it is just the battle..I have no sypmtohoy for whiners..the treatment is out there and there is hope...we dont have terminal cancer.If you did I would have sypthohy...but this is treatable..
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Post by ANTHILL on Jun 29, 2005 23:28:24 GMT -5
Exactly what Kerry said to Jeff and more---- no sympathy for whiners don't you mean empathy?
apparently you weren't hit hard enough with this
all the tell tell signs of a young man that hasn't reached adult hood yet and has the world by the prick or so he thinks he does
Transcending all mans Ideas and material things or even who you are" mother nature is a hell of a teacher and I think you are in for some more lessons
I pray one day that your sympathy and your empathy kickes in because with out that you cant have real love
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Post by bugsalive2 on Jun 29, 2005 23:43:54 GMT -5
Jeff,
You're stuck in something worse than depression, and you're stuck deep.
Bugs Alive
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YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW
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Post by YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW on Jun 30, 2005 11:23:31 GMT -5
Jeff: I have a sister in-law with breast cancer and taking chemo. She implied that I had no idea what it is to be really sick. I have fought this for so long and I would gladly take chemo treatments if it would help. Beleive me I can deal with the skin problems, but the fatigue and depression is another story. Depression has nothing to do with a person's strength or weakness. A friend once told me to just get up and put some lipstick on and I would feel better. HA ! A couple of years later she became depressed and I was the one she turned to. She appologised for being so insensitive to me earliier. Maybe you should go jump on Tom Cruise's band wagon. It's easy to judge others just because we were able to overcome a problem. guest
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Post by JEFF on Jun 30, 2005 22:41:38 GMT -5
please dont wish mentall illness on me..I dont think god would like that..thats not nice..I was depressed and suicidal in my early teen years..Ive been through soo much chit in my life from mentally abusive parents to my ex wife leaving me for another man..and being married 3 times now..at only 38..If i want to look for exucses Ive got them..modern medicine will tell you anything to get you on their meds..dont you believe it..god has the power to beat depression..All you need to do is beilive in him and trust that he will...really really trust...100%..he died on the cross for your pain..put the pain on the cross where it belongs,..,
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La Piedes de la Arachnia
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Post by La Piedes de la Arachnia on Jul 1, 2005 0:29:40 GMT -5
I was only responding to an attack on our president and the government of the greastist country ever to exist. Whos very constitution mirrors the bible. You think so? Well, your point view directly contradicts the points of view of some of the greatest patriots and our founding fathers and even Gov. Schwartzenegger. Don't believe me? How about if you read it from them in their own words: Benjamin Franklin: "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, ‘tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here [in England] and in New England."
------------------------ Thomas Paine: "Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but is always the strongly marked feature of all law-religion, or religions established by law."
"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of all government to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith."
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Robert Boston: "The Constitution fashioned in 1787 is a secular document. There is no mention of God, Jesus Christ, or a supreme being anywhere in the document. A minority faction of delegates pressed for some type of recognition of Christianity in the Constitution, but their views were rejected."
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"[N]o religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Article VI, Clause 3 of the Constitution
(The object of Article VI, Clause 3 was) "to cut off forever every pretense of any alliance between church and state in the national Government." U.S. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . ." Religion Clauses of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
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President John Adams: [In] the formation of the American governments . . . it will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of heaven. . . . These governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."
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President John Adams and the U.S. Senate in 1797: "[T]he government of the United States of America is not founded in any sense on the Christian religion. . . ." (From "The Treaty with Tripoli, " approved by President Adams and unanimously ratified by the Senate.)
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President Thomas Jefferson: "I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions. . . . I do not believe it is for the interest of religion to invite the civil magistrate to direct its exercises, its discipline, or its doctrine."
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President Ulysses S. Grant: "Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church and the private school supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate."
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President Rutherford B. Hayes: "We all agree that neither the Government nor political parties ought to interfere with religious sects. It is equally true that religious sects ought not to interfere with the Government or with political parties. We believe that the cause of good government and the cause of religion suffer by all such interference."
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President Theodore Roosevelt: "I hold that in this country there must be complete severance of Church and State; that public moneys shall not be used for the purpose of advancing any particular creed; and therefore that the public schools shall be nonsectarian and no public moneys appropriated for sectarian schools."
"Any political movement directed against any body of our fellow-citizens because of their religious creed is a grave offense against American principles and American institutions. It is a wicked thing either to support or oppose a man because of the creed he possesses. . . . Such a movement directly contravenes the spirit of the Constitution itself."
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President Franklin D. Roosevelt: "The lessons of religious toleration – a toleration which recognizes complete liberty of human thought, liberty of conscience – is one which, by precept and example, must be inculcated in the hearts and minds of all Americans if the institutions of our democracy are to be maintained and perpetuated."
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President Harry Truman: "Here we now have the freedom of all religions, and I hope that never again will we have a repetition of religious bigotry, as we have had in certain periods of our own history. There is no room for that kind of foolishness here."
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Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger: "I do not make decisions based on what have I learned through my Bible studies, what have I learned in my religious classes in school. I'm a big believer in separation of church and state, and I think that's what . . . the law is." I can safely say every single one of those presidents, the governor, and the two other major historical figures of the US revolutionary period know what the constitution stands for more than, you, me, or our current (p)resident. I'm not attacking you, personally, Jeff, but our country's principles of government were NOT founded or based on the bible. I would please request that you research this topic more to see for yourself.
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Post by Hope on Jul 1, 2005 2:12:09 GMT -5
It's getting deep in here.
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Post by special guest star on Jul 1, 2005 5:39:38 GMT -5
Separation of church and state. Love it, live it, or leave it (heh...I sound like a Republican).
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Post by special guest star on Jul 1, 2005 6:19:38 GMT -5
Please understand my tongue was so far in my cheek with that last post that I bit it on accident. I believe exchanges like these are healthy, no matter your views. I feel like I NEED to know why people who have differeing views have them and why they don't see the other points of view. I consider meself openminded, morally directed, caring, patriotic and level headed, but I'm not religious, I am wary of the corporate a dn fundamentalist influence on the government, and when I disagree, I'm quite vociferous in my disapproval, since that is a right guaranteed to me as a citizen of the US which is protected by the First Amendment of the US Constitution, the most important document in human history in my opinion.
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Post by ANTHILL on Jul 1, 2005 8:50:46 GMT -5
Have you ever tried to sing the wizard of oz while blowing saliva bubbles try it ---it's fun!!!
If ever a wonderful Wiz there was The Wizard of Oz is one because Because because because because because Because of the wonderful things he does .... because of the wonderful things he does!
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Post by JEFF on Jul 1, 2005 22:30:17 GMT -5
over 70% of the orginal congress of the united states were ordained ministers. The pilgrims came here to practice christainity apart from the church of england. ..sorry you may disagree but most of our founding fathers were christians, and thats why there are so many freedoms built into the constitution..If I wanted I could find just as many famous quotes but Im not gonna take the time..i dont want to play the numbers game...my dog is bigger than your dog crap. lets just say you think what you want and I will think what I want..Im just lucky that more poeple in america agree with me than with you...hence the last election landslide ..liberalism is on its way out..thank god
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Post by bugsalive2 on Jul 1, 2005 23:50:44 GMT -5
Jeff,
I agree with you about our founding fathers and the Christian principles upon which this nation was founded. I also agree that a lot of people voted for Bush because they thought he was a Christian. I don't want to say anyone isn't that professes Christianity, but people who know what George Bush has done, realize that he isn't being a good example of one. The World Trade Center was deliberately destroyed by our Federal Government and it certainly appears that he knew it was going to happen ahead of time. This was done so that we would have public support when we invaded Afganistan and Iraq. The Afgans and the Iraqis were murdered by our Government. Bush also has a personal interest in the Trans Afganistan Pipeline which Bridas corporation and the Taliban stood in the way of. I believe Bush is a mass murderer.
Bugs Alive
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Post by Hope on Jul 2, 2005 4:31:33 GMT -5
Jeff, Who would Jesus bomb? Jesus was a liberal. He fed the poor and healed the sick. He didn't even mind paying taxes unlike "conservatives". "Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's." How much more liberal can you get than that? ;D ;D
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Post by adapted on Jul 2, 2005 5:50:33 GMT -5
"Liberalism is on its way out"? No, "FREEDOM" is on it's way out. There's an overthrow taking place in our nation of Bible-Banging-zealots being fueled by Cowboy George's own personal evil agenda that's cloaked under guise of Christianity. He made a lot of headway with it during his first term, and with the expansion of his already-existing faith-based programs, during this term, the road is being well paved. Among the lists of unconscionable acts Cowboy has been enabled to do, thus far, with plenty more on the way, wake the heck up people. For the love of God, start thinking for yourselves and for your future generations...not for him. From abortion rights to same-sex marriage to government-funded religion, this Land Of The Free is being turned into a country that dictates what moral choices its citizens are allowed to make. I don't think that our efforts to protect religious liberty and defend the separation of church and state stand too much of a chance up against this rapidly growing regime. Cowboy's got an awful lot of puppets working for him. I will say, UNASHAMEDLY, that these Bible-Bangers are far removed from anything bearing any resemblance to the definition of a Christian. Jesus Christ taught love, tolerance, and acceptance. He commanded us to love one another. These "so-called" Christians rule with an iron fist. CHRIST IS ABSENT from their-own-form of "CHRIST-ianity". Our Heavenly Father, with Jesus at His right hand, is the only one who can judge any of us. Anyone encountering a person professing to be a Christian, keep in mind what The Bible says in Matthew 7:20 "Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them". Also, Matthew 22:19 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself". Love, which emcompasses tolerance and acceptance, does not include judgement...it does not include dictatorship. "...and all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again." Our nation is crumbling underneath him as he trudges onward with his plan(s). So many people ....so unaware.
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Post by JEFF on Jul 2, 2005 12:31:36 GMT -5
YOU GUYS HAVE ALL BOUGHT INTO A LYE..I MUST ASK AND YOU MUST ASK WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM...YOULL PROBABLY FIND IT WAS WRITTEN BY A LIBERAL..ARE YOU SO SICK TO SAY BUSH WANTED 911....YOUR SICK..IF THIS WAS TRUE HE WOULD BE IN PRISON..YOU TALK ABOUT FREEDOMS..THE LIBERALS IN THE SUPREAM COURT VOTED TO ALLOW CITIES TO TAKE YOUR PROPERTY LAST WEEK...A TYPICAL LIBERAL WOULD SAY OOOOH LOOK WHAT GOERGE BUSH DID LAST WEEK!..UPON CLOSER INVESTIGATION YOU WILL FIND THE 5 TO 4 VOTE ...THE 4 VOTES AGAINST TAKING OF PROPERTY WHERE THE JUDGES THAT WERE RIGHT AND NOT LEFT...YOU HAVE BEEN COMPLETILY FOOLED..YOU HAVE BEEN INDOCTRINATED BY THE LIBERIAL MEDIA AND THE LIBERIAL COLLAGES...HENCE I NOTICE MOST OF YOU LIBERALS HAVE PERFECT GRAMMER..YOU WENT TO COLLAGE DIDNT YOU..I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU...YOU WERE BRAINWASHED BY PROFESSERS AT A EARLY STAGE IN LIFE...AND THAT COMBINED WITH YOUR DRUG AND ALCHOLOL ABUSE AND DEPRESSION LET YOU DOWN THAT ROAD...YOU ARE BRAINWASHED...THE LIBERIAL ARE THE RICH AND POWERFULL CORPORATE WHORES..THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE ONES WHO CARE ABOUT THE COMMON FOLK..YOU THINK THESE DEMOCRATES ARE POOR....HAH..THINK AGAIN...IS IT SO WRONG TO BE PRO BUSINESS...I USED TO OWN A COMPANY..THEGOVERNMENT RED TAPE..PUT UP BY THE LIBERALS PUT ME OUT OF BUSINESS...YOULL FIND 90% OF SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS ARE REPUBLICAN...ASK YOUR SELF WHY...ARE THEY ALL STUPID..? ONLY A STUPID PERSON WOULD THINK SO MANY COULD BE STUPID..SO ARE YOU SAYING 90 PERCENT OF BUSINESS OWNERS ARE STUPID AND YOUR RIGHT>>>>!!!!
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Post by special guest star on Jul 2, 2005 14:03:57 GMT -5
jeff--
"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today, he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA!!"--Matt Johnson
Christians will be the last ones to accept Jesus the second time around.They won't recognize him. Many of them have totally missed what his message was of charity, good will toward all men, turn the other cheek, living by modest means and not kingly wealth.
Let's see, Bush isn't charitable, in fact he has cut funding for programs to benefit the poor and homeless and instead has foisted them on corporations and churches to administer "faith based initiatives" as opposed to the government fulfilling its obligation to take care of its citizens.
I think any act of war would never be considered an act of good will.
And he definitely doesn't turn the other cheek.
And he is wealthier than 90% of the world's population, so he fails the camel through the eye of a needle test.
George Bush is a man who claims to be a christian in order to fool other christians into supporting him. SInce when did christians ever support a war? Or an act of revenge? Vengeance is a sin, so who gets to atone for that sin? Bush? Or all of us?
And Jeff, you can't just make a claim that you know for a fact 70% of our congress were ordained ministers without proving it. I call BS. I call BS on you having "all those quotes" to counter mine. That's lazy debating Jeff, and I'm going to respectfully ask you to prove those statements you made or withdraw them.
Obviously, La Piedes de la Arachnia cared enough about backing up her claim that she provided documentation to support her statement. You are obligated to do the same if you want to be taken seriously in this conversation. If this is a court of law, you lose. You are losing if a jury is watching right now.
Your devotion to your religion has blinded you to the horrible things Bush does in the name of "freedom." He blackens that word by uttering it. He doesn't know what it means, he only knows violence and war and profiting from both. The company responsible for rebuilding Iraq has a large chunk of stock owned by the Bush family. The Vice President used to be the CEO of that company.
So, Bush will live happily ever after while orphans will grow up hating Americans. Injured children will grow into bitter crippled adults. Bush's corruption has given birth or spawned a whole new generation of muslims who will grow up hating us. Hating you. Hating me because of something the president did, but we get to be the object of their direct hatred if we're ever in their presence.
His only agenda and his only responsibility has been to the corporate interests who funded his campaign. Since he won, favors are done in return. I( don't buy the 9-11 conspiracy theory either, except that he was so shocked by it, he sat and stared in space for 30 minutes after he heard what had happened. He froze. He was indecisive at a crucial moment--not just of his presidency--but in American history. And when he snapped out of it, and he was told al Qaeda did it, he said "See if we can pin this on Saddam."
He's a vile snake in the grass. He's an evil, evil man, Jeff. And your patriotism has lead you astray. Your faith has been tricked. Your trusted has been deceived, and you and your fellow countrymen will suffer the consequences long before Bush is even aware that anything happened after he retires to his well insulated ivory tower.
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Post by adapted on Jul 2, 2005 14:25:04 GMT -5
Cowboy George is so atrocious, just look how far off the topic off this thread we've gone in such a short time. Let's talk about his irresponsible fiscal management now. During his first term, he turned President Clinton's record fiscal budget surpluses into RECORD DEFICITS, handed ENORMOUS tax breaks to our nation's wealthiest individuals and corporations, and presided over the WORST JOB LOSS RECORD since Herbert Hoover. Meanwhile, over the past four years, Cowboy and his Republican cronies in Congress have slashed funding for health care, emergency first responders and for our children's education, forcing most states to either raise taxes or cut essential services. Just since he took office, 32 states have been forced to raise net taxes and fees by a total of $16.2 billion because of revenue shortfalls and reductions in federal support. Tuition at four-year state colleges and universities increased by an average of 14% last year due to shrinking federal dollars. And, since 2002, budget shortfalls have forced many states to drastically cut eligibility for health insurance. As a result, 1.2 to 1.6 million low-income people... including 500,000 low-income children...lost their health care coverage. And here we are again. With his new special interest budget, even despite slashing funds for critical programs, Cowboy's plan will still end up resulting in a record $412 billion deficit. This doesn't even include the future expenses of the continuing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, or the more than $2 trillion in upfront costs for his RECKLESS Social Security privatization plan. He is a bad, bad man. Everyone better take off their blindfolds and remove their earplugs. This "blind-faith" that voters who support Cowboy have (for lack of a kinder thing to label it as), is injurious even to them...but they refuse to educate themselves to see any of the wrongs this creep duz. It's all "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil".
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Post by ANTHILL on Jul 2, 2005 16:17:12 GMT -5
I do believe there was a post by Patti way back when that we really don't want heated politics debated discussed on this forum we would like this to be a place of healing not of contention There was a suggestion that it be done on one of those many political forums that you can find all over the Internet
Here are some other options you all could exchange email Addy's or I'm Addy's Those that Are not registered could register and use the private messaging function on the board
If you cant respect our wishes at least play nice I'm going to leave it be for now and am giving you fair warning This thread is skating on thin Ice and I don't hold much hope for it As a matter of fact I feel a storm coming DO you know how I can tell ? my the finger that I use to delete things gets itchy
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Post by Lisa on Jul 2, 2005 18:34:21 GMT -5
Ant, would it make your finger less itchy if it's discussed in the Off Topic board? I think some things need to be said....as long as it's done respectfully of course.
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Post by skytroll on Jul 2, 2005 19:51:03 GMT -5
Ant, Jeff, Bugs, etc,
Liberal or Conservative will turn into communitarianism vs independent thinkers. The Dems and Reps are both losing the support of the people. It is the people who need to be listened to, not these morphed leaders. It is sorta like this: do we have bugs or do we have worms in Morgellons. It is neither. It is a morphing thing, just like these liberals and conservatives who are morphing together. Both are wrong, as is the label we get from docs who say we are delusional. Liberal Academia is regenoming the earth, while Conservatives are synthecizing everything that is natural. This is not so called moderacy I am talking here, it is true objective independent thinking. This is where progression stopped. Both parties are self-destructing. Neither gives a darn about the people. It is agenda, top-down stuff from both parties. It needs to come from the guts of this nation. The true independent thinkers who can see the good and bad in both the parties, but, are willing to select what is best for all of mankind in this nation and the world. The people need to wake up to the destruction both parties are doing to us. I am not talking populist party here either. I am talking true Americans going after Congress, Senate, Judicial Branch and put them in there places where they belong, not as rulers. If you take the blue pill you believe what you want, if you take the red pill, see how far that rabbit hole goes. (paraphrase from Matrix). At least with the red pill we can see it unfold and that rabbit hole gets smaller and smaller. There is more at stake here which includes the ecological earth itself, the lies told us there, and the material world, the lies told us there. The pharmaceutical companies want to synthecize all our medicines, the oil companies are hiding "free energy" from us. It is time for the people to speak. That includes our health. What we do on these boards express from our very beings what is happening to us. I am so thankful we can do this. But, people wake us to what is happening to us. The political labels are just that. They are in blue boxes or red boxes. Think outside of both, this is where we will get somewhere.
skytroll
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