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Post by Carrie♥ on Mar 27, 2009 22:39:52 GMT -5
I could spend an enormous amount of time addressing the "Sponge-Associated Microorganisms" in an effort to prove my theory of "Replication" but I simply have to draw the line somewhere. If what I have provided here so far has not yet convinced you that the sponge does indeed replicate other organisms then I strongly encourage you to read this article because the authors have gone to great lengths trying to explain their findings, but are unsuccessful. They discuss every conceivable possibility with one exception, that exception is the theory I am proposing, there is no other explanation, it's as simple as that. Read the article, it is the most in-depth study on this topic ever written. Sponge-Associated Microorganismsmmbr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/295I've read the above article Steve and just don't get it. They're discovering the symbiotic relationship between the sponge and it's bacteria. They found some common molds in the sponge and don't really know the relationship. They've found virus-like particles in the cells but probably brought there by infecting bacteria. That all sounds pretty normal to me. It's hard for me to really read and understand the article tho cuz most of it is like a foreign language to me. I don't understand what replication has to do with this article. It seems like the Kamoto Dragon has some pretty hash bacteria to help digest its food. We're loaded with our fauna bacteria, yeasts and enzymes. I don't see the difference between this and what the article is exploring. If it's there please point it out cuz I really don't understand what your pointing out. And!!! How do you suggest we become infected with the sponge? You've not answered that yet or else I couldn't navigate effectively thru all these 15 pages to find it !
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Post by kammy on Mar 29, 2009 14:06:56 GMT -5
Hey Steve, I'm cross-posting this from my thread - I thought you might find this interesting?... "Steve, I have to say that the 'biofilm' or 'yellow goo' part of Morgellons resembles sponge. Of course, we don't know for sure, but, it looks 'sort of' sponge-like, to me. This is the very edges of the yellow goo biofilm have started spreading out like fingers in this one sample. This photo is fascinating, in that you can see the 'spaceships' (I. belli) growing in the tentacle ends?... there's thousands of 'specks' in the biofilm - future spaceships?... which we know are the I. belli. my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/Posted/Lymebusters/3 29 09 L Ear/03_29_50.JPEG[/img] This next photo is just to the left of the previous photo: my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/Posted/Lymebusters/3 29 09 L Ear/03_29_52.JPEG[/img] The photo below is in another section of the dish which is a little darker and cloudier because it's next to a black circular 'coccus-like' culture - this one is 'hairier' because of the dark one's influence - this yellow goo biofilm also shows the sponge-like effect: my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/Posted/Lymebusters/3 29 09 L Ear/03_29_100.JPEG[/img] my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/Posted/Lymebusters/3 29 09 L Ear/03_29_101.JPEG[/img] my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/Posted/Lymebusters/3 29 09 L Ear/03_29_102.JPEG[/img] my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/Posted/Lymebusters/3 29 09 L Ear/03_29_103.JPEG[/img] Steve, you know of any sponges that take on or absorb the characteristics of what's around them... (hello?... isn't that what a sponge does/is?... lol...) How about ones that make 'cactus-like fingers' or are 'fan-shaped'?I believe these two photo samples are of the same thing - however, see how different their characteristics are depending on what's near or next to them? I will check very close in the macro world next time, to positively verify that they are the very same thing."
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Post by stevefrey on Mar 30, 2009 1:52:34 GMT -5
I could spend an enormous amount of time addressing the "Sponge-Associated Microorganisms" in an effort to prove my theory of "Replication" but I simply have to draw the line somewhere. If what I have provided here so far has not yet convinced you that the sponge does indeed replicate other organisms then I strongly encourage you to read this article because the authors have gone to great lengths trying to explain their findings, but are unsuccessful. They discuss every conceivable possibility with one exception, that exception is the theory I am proposing, there is no other explanation, it's as simple as that. Read the article, it is the most in-depth study on this topic ever written. Sponge-Associated Microorganismsmmbr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/295I've read the above article Steve and just don't get it. They're discovering the symbiotic relationship between the sponge and it's bacteria. They found some common molds in the sponge and don't really know the relationship. They've found virus-like particles in the cells but probably brought there by infecting bacteria. That all sounds pretty normal to me. It's hard for me to really read and understand the article tho cuz most of it is like a foreign language to me. I don't understand what replication has to do with this article. It seems like the Kamoto Dragon has some pretty hash bacteria to help digest its food. We're loaded with our fauna bacteria, yeasts and enzymes. I don't see the difference between this and what the article is exploring. If it's there please point it out cuz I really don't understand what your pointing out. And!!! How do you suggest we become infected with the sponge? You've not answered that yet or else I couldn't navigate effectively thru all these 15 pages to find it ! And!!! How do you suggest we become infected with the sponge? You've not answered that yet or else I couldn't navigate effectively thru all these 15 pages to find it !Page 15 CarrieThe sponge's association with other organisms is unique in many ways. The most outstanding characteristic is the existence of "sponge specific" organisms. There can only be so many explanations for sponge specific organisms. One; the organism became associated with the sponge then subsequently went extinct, two; the organism evolved significantly enough within the sponge to warrant a change in classification, three; the sponge created or produced the organism as in the theory I present, this is where the term "replication" comes into play.
Take into consideration the lack of knowledge Science has about the sponge associated organisms. Many of the organisms associated with sponges are unique or unexplained.Why does the sponge contain fungal strains commonly associated with terrestrial habitats?
Is it coincidence that the bacteria strains associated with sponges contain slime capsules just like the slime producing bacteria?
Why would the sponge associated bacteria pass through the sponge uneaten when bacteria from seawater were consumed?
Why do bacteria in sponges possess unprecedented metabolic features? In the case of sponge associated flies again we have unique species with unique characteristics.What I propose as the explanation for everything I have listed above is that instead of the sponge coexisting with the "associated organisms" it actually produces them, these products are what I refer to as "replicas" and they will generally possess characteristics not found in the organism being replicated, these characteristics will however be typical of those found in the sponge. The existence of organisms specific to the sponge I contend are the result of the sponge replicating another organism imperfectly with changes or alterations significant enough to place them outside of the known classification.
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Post by stevefrey on Mar 30, 2009 8:15:15 GMT -5
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Post by stevefrey on Mar 30, 2009 8:33:49 GMT -5
Even the pine pollen can be accounted for by the sponge.
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Post by stevefrey on Mar 30, 2009 20:04:03 GMT -5
Some may consider this as going out on a limb with this one but what the heck I'm out there already so lets see what you think of this. My theory being what it is makes just about anything possible. Killer algae Caulerpa taxifolia
In 1984 an extremely invasive species of Algae was discovered in the Mediterranean Sea adjacent to the Oceanographic Museum of Monaco, it covered a patch about the size of a square yard. By 1989 it had spread to two acres, by 1997 to more than 11,000 acres and by 2001 it was estimated that C. taxifolia had infested over 30,000 acres of the northern Mediterranean coastline in Spain, France, Italy, Croatia and Tunisia, the infestation is now considered beyond control. C. taxifolia, the "killer algae", is prohibited in the U.S.and has been designated a U.S. Federal Noxious Weed. The entire planet's ecosystem is at risk from this incredibly invasive species of algae. The aquarium strain of C. taxifolia has had devastating ecological and economic impacts in the Mediterranean. It has formed dense carpets, out competed native seaweeds and seagrasses and displaced invertebrates. Species diversity and abundance is reduced where C. taxifolia has invaded. Chemical analyses and feeding trials have demonstrated that the alga contains toxins that deter herbivores, including fish. In affected regions of the Mediterranean, fish densities have decreased and fisheries production is reported to have declined. The establishment of C. taxifolia is reported to have harmed tourism and pleasure boating, recreational diving, and commercial fisheries. An investigation to determine it's origin lead to the Stuttgart Aquarium in Germany. A team from the aquarium, while searching for an attractive Algae to use in their displays, collected Caulerpa specimens from their native waters and transported them to Germany, where the species flourished in the aquariums. This aquarium strain of C. taxifolia was provided to aquariums in France and Monaco and soon became the most popular aquarium plant in the world. Somehow the native species, after being placed in the aquarium, altered it's DNA and nobody knows how.
Characteristics of Killer Algae C. taxifolia has a complex morphology and adapts rapidly, simply changing their environment will produce an altered growth form whereby the original morphotype soon becomes unrecognizable, under certain conditions C. taxifolia has been found to possess the morphological characteristics attributed to C. mexicana, and vice-versa. It produces a toxin that is known to kill short-term memory brain cells in humans. C. taxifolia has efficient wound healing properties, upon damage, healing occurs in seconds, involving actin-mediated contraction and a "plug" of cell wall material. Their cell wall contains highly c omplex polysaccharides, and sometimes contain calcium carbonate deposits, and some contain quantities of glass (silica dioxide). C. taxifolia contains carotenoids, a class of natural fat-soluble pigments that are naturally occurring in chromoplasts of plants, some algae, fungus and bacteria. C. taxifolia, and other filamentous forms, reproducte through the regeneration of fragments. Sexual reproduction has never been observed in invasive C. taxifolia. Alpha Proteobacteria, beta Proteobacterial, and Cytophaga-Flexibacter-Bacteroides(CFB) are dominate bacteria isolated from C. taxifolia. It is composed of pseudo-organs that often resemble the roots, shoots, and leaves of higher plants.
How these characteristics compare to sponges Sponges have a complex morphology. Sponges produce toxins. Sponges have efficient wound healing properties. Sponges produce highly complex polysaccharides. Sponges produce large amounts of calcium carbonate. Sponges produce silica dioxide. Sponges contain carotenoids Sponges can regenerate from a fragment. Sponges are strongly tied the Proteobacteria and CFB bacterias. Might that aquarium have contained a malicious sponge that manipulated the original species of Algae by replicating it?
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Post by kammy on Apr 6, 2009 9:39:12 GMT -5
Hey Steve, An associate found a marine agent in my cultured growths - cyanobacteria or blue/green algae. What do you know about this? Here's a cross-post from my thread: "We've made another discovery today, I'm getting some help from 'Kritters'. Hopefully, she'll be out here soon to join me? I'm trying to get Mark in here... Kritters pointed this one out to me: This one below has been identified as cyanobacteria: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanobacteriaWikipedia's photo: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Anabaena_sperica.jpg/250px-My Photos - #1 shows how it is coming together: my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/3 24 09 Left Ear/03_24_30.JPEG[/img] my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/3 24 09 Left Ear/03_24_31.JPEG[/img] Look how this one shows that the cyanobacteria is turning into a 'fiber'? What do you think? Look at the upper strand vs. the lower one: my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/3 24 09 Left Ear/03_24_34.JPEG[/img] my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/3 24 09 Left Ear/03_24_36.JPEG[/img] This one looks more like the Wiki photo, (my photo is from a human, theirs is from nature): my-stuff-dot-com.com/My Stuff/Personal/Morgellons/My Photos/3 24 09 Left Ear/03_24_37.JPEG[/img] (*The source? I've eaten blue/green algae before as a supplement, how many others here have also?)"
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Post by stevefrey on Apr 6, 2009 11:30:50 GMT -5
There is a lot to know about cyanobacteria, here are a few facts
Cyanobacteria or blue/green algae are the oldest known fossils at 3.5 billion years.
They are one of the largest and most important groups of bacteria on earth.
They are considered the origin of plants since they are photosynthetic.
Our oxygen atmosphere was generated by cyanobacteria.
Algae is thought to have evolved from cyanobacteria.
Cyanobacteria are found in almost every conceivable habitat.
Cyanobacteria are the only group of organisms that are able to reduce nitrogen and carbon in aerobic conditions.
Sponge associated cyanobacteria strongly supports my theory in many ways, including the following
They are common symbionts of sponges and there is considerable evidence supporting the hypothesis that sponges and their associated cyanobacterium are coevolving.
Symbiosis between sponges and cyanobacteria is unique in that sponges can actually feed off of the photosynthetic abilities of cyanobacteria, no other multicellular animal can do this. all attempts at culturing sponge-associated cyanobacteria have failed.
Unique species of cyanobacteria have been isolated from sponges.
Some filamentous colonies show the ability to differentiate into several different cell types
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Post by kammy on Apr 7, 2009 2:53:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Steve. I'm trying real hard to put all these pieces together, calling on the 'ameatur experts' in all the fields... since we can't get answers from the 'real' experts...
What I'm thinking is - is that there are two different 'things' at work here that resemble each other. Notice how these cyanobacterium resemble the 'fibers'?
Well... I think there's the 'fibers' and there's the cyanobacteria, which is a separate entity. However, they resemble each other very much, under microscopy. As far as I can tell, so far - the cyanobacteria is a blue/green color only - the 'fibers' are florscent and multicolored.
A few people have responded that they took a blue/green algae supplement at one time, however, I don't think this is a criteria of how cyanobacteria got into some of our systems. For instance, if you caught your Morgellons from someone - you didn't necessarily have to take the supplement to have Morgellons. That if the cyanobacteria is the cause or 'trigger' that kicks in Morgellons - many, many more people than have been reported, should show signs of Morgellons? We can assume that many millions of people have taken a blue/green algae supplement?
Or, the algae could have been introduced in another way? I'm sure you have a theory on how this blue/green algae or sponge-related marine agent got into some of our systems?
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Post by stevefrey on Apr 7, 2009 9:28:37 GMT -5
Hi Kammy, I think cyanobacteria are one of the original players in the game of life on this planet, when the choanoflagellate showed up it fed on the bacteria, copied it's genome while doing so and began creating new life combining it's own genetic code with that of cyanobacteria, I think it is likely that the entire Archaea domain as well as all Fungi may be a result of the choanoflagellate and subsequently the sponge combining their genomes with the genomes of bacteria and Eukaryotes, which is why the choanoflagellate and sponge mitochondrial genomes posses genes from all life on the planet. I believe that the sponge has been coping genomes of everything it has come in contact with since day one and continues to produce close replicas of these organisms but with additional traits, sometimes these additonal traits add up to the creation of a new phylum of life sometimes just a new species. If you entertain this idea and really think about it's implications it opens the door for just about anything and it answers a lot of questions. I know this is a very broad picture but it's the best I can do at the moment, it's brain numbing isn't it?
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Post by kammy on Apr 7, 2009 12:33:03 GMT -5
No, that makes sense, Steve. Sponge is similiar to water... whatever it comes into contact with - the water takes a particle, piece of it and whatever was in contact with it, will remain with the water - either by its taste, smell, chemistry or the way it looks?
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Post by stevefrey on Apr 7, 2009 14:34:23 GMT -5
Well... I think there's the 'fibers' and there's the cyanobacteria, which is a separate entity. However, they resemble each other very much, under microscopy. As far as I can tell, so far - the cyanobacteria is a blue/green color only - the 'fibers' are florscent and multicolored
I tend to agree with you on the fibers and cyanobacteria being separate entities Kammy. I posted the following info earlier in the thread but I think it's relevance warrants another mention. This specifically applies to the fiber cells of Trichoplax adhearens but as I've stated before I believe Trichoplax and sponges are likely one in the same.
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Post by jeany on Apr 7, 2009 15:34:59 GMT -5
Hey Kammy! It's me Katinka ;D Marine related, huh? You know there are theories about Morgellons Sufferers living near the ocean/coast. If this is correct then it could explain how I got this as a child living in south california. Maybe from the beach? Or peeing in the water? I saw a documentation on TV lately about a worm/fish that get's attracted to ammonia. If people pee in to the water the fish/worm invades their body over the urinary passage..men and women. There is NO cure for this...only surgery. Could be this Trichoplax adhaerens somehow invades us the same way too?? Or by swallowing ocean water? Jeany PS: I have pics of sponge hairy looking things I found in my urine.
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Post by stevefrey on Apr 7, 2009 20:06:02 GMT -5
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Post by kammy on Apr 7, 2009 22:05:44 GMT -5
I don't doubt that it's marine related somehow. We have isolated a water-born fungus, though Steve, that I guess could be anywhere water is?
Hey Jeany - Peeing in the water, OMG! Who hasn't done that? Well... no wonder! I was spending a lot of time on the beach in the Gulf of Florida when I got sick... and I always go into the water to pee, no need in going home, the water's right there! (The things our mamas don't tell us?)
AND... I remember one day, right before I got sick - there was a ton of algae that was washing in, I was in the water with it, it was good and fresh-looking... and I said to myself, "Take a bite of that and see what it tastes like, you took that blue-green algae, it can't hurt you?" I did and I swallowed it too... I'm still wondering about that move? lol
Yeah, I'm growing some urine too to see what happens. Gosh, girl, we're two-of-a-kind weird!... lol
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Post by stevefrey on Apr 7, 2009 22:36:37 GMT -5
Kammy! eating blue/green algae like that, not a good move, some species produce poisonous toxins and are very dangerous.
Possible effects of blue/green algae toxins
Getting it on the skin can cause a rash, hives, or skin blisters (especially on the lips and under swimsuits). Inhaling water droplets can cause runny eyes and nose, a sore throat, asthma-like symptoms, or allergic reactions. Swallowing water that has toxins in it can cause abdominal pain, diarrhea and vomiting. It can also cause numb lips, tingling fingers and toes, or dizziness.
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Post by jeany on Apr 8, 2009 11:11:41 GMT -5
Hey Kammy, going to the beach was my favorite thing to do as a kid. I still love the ocean and miss it over here. Here's my pic (thanks to Steve I found out how to do LOL) Bild304.jpgYup, kinda weird! Glad I met you! Jeany
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Post by kammy on Apr 8, 2009 16:52:55 GMT -5
Kammy! eating blue/green algae like that, not a good move, some species produce poisonous toxins and are very dangerous. Possible effects of blue/green algae toxins Getting it on the skin can cause a rash, hives, or skin blisters (especially on the lips and under swimsuits). Inhaling water droplets can cause runny eyes and nose, a sore throat, asthma-like symptoms, or allergic reactions. Swallowing water that has toxins in it can cause abdominal pain, diarrhea and vomiting. It can also cause numb lips, tingling fingers and toes, or dizziness. I was raised landlocked from the Mountains, Steve... we don't know nothing about no killer seaweed. I'm glad to know that now... makes me feel a lot better. Yeah, another gal was with me when both of us took a test bite of that seaweed. She was a local, so I figured... 'well... she must know if it'll make us sick, or not, and she's taking a bite?...' It was just tee-tiny bite... and I doubt everyone with Morgellons has eaten raw seaweed, like a fool! ;D When I found out I had Morgellons, I told her - and I exclaimed, "And, I ate that seaweed, remember!?", and the shocked look on her face... priceless!... she said, wideeyed, "Yeah! Me too!". I know she was imagining all kinds of horror from witnessing what I was going through... I collect and have studied fine art as hobby for years. I think we need to start a "Morgie Art" thread... some of these shots are art! Yeah, if we can figure out a way to get the public to buy these images? They're fascinating, have ya'll noticed? They look like outer space, science fiction, aerial and sky crop shots, underwater, abstracts, realism, surrealism, impressionistic, pencil sketches, crayons... we need to open a Morgie Art Gallery somewhere? What's your interpretation, Jeany, of your photo? It's a good one. My interpretation - It looks like a crayon drawing of a cat's ball of Morgie yarn. What's that red object in the background, inside the 'ball'?
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Post by kammy on Apr 11, 2009 16:47:05 GMT -5
Lordy, I stopped the thread! Well... this isn't a first time. I was just kidding about the "Art Gallery", my dry sense of humor...
Steve and I have been talking and I think his insight about what has happened is on the right track, however, it is on such a high level of intelligence that most can't grasp it. I have a very open mind and am starting to slightly understand it.
Correct me, if I'm wrong, Steve? I believe you are understanding the microworld on a level that most in the macroworld cannot conceive? It is close to the "God-level" of creation and therefore, hard to prove scientifically. But, I know it's provable, and I'm here to help you - however, I can.
I'm dealing with the nutz and bolts, it's going to take a great mind to figure this out, and that's where you come in. The "Morgellons Stew" is like an underwater eco system, with its 'base' being marine and with most all of life coming from the sea, and scientists creating their creations with what is known, the sponge/fungus is probably the beginning source of all disease?
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Post by stevefrey on Apr 11, 2009 20:30:48 GMT -5
Lordy, I stopped the thread! Well... this isn't a first time. I was just kidding about the "Art Gallery", my dry sense of humor... Steve and I have been talking and I think his insight about what has happened is on the right track, however, it is on such a high level of intelligence that most can't grasp it. I have a very open mind and am starting to slightly understand it. Correct me, if I'm wrong, Steve? I believe you are understanding the microworld on a level that most in the macroworld cannot conceive? It is close to the "God-level" of creation and therefore, hard to prove scientifically. But, I know it's provable, and I'm here to help you - however, I can. I'm dealing with the nutz and bolts, it's going to take a great mind to figure this out, and that's where you come in. The "Morgellons Stew" is like an underwater eco system, with its 'base' being marine and with most all of life coming from the sea, and scientists creating their creations with what is known, the sponge/fungus is probably the beginning source of all disease? Thanks Kammy, I have to really dig deep for the right way to answer your question and I want everyone to understand that my position on this subject was by no means influenced by my belief or disbelief in God, but I will say this much, the theory that I am proposing has the potential of discrediting a great deal of what Science currently considers evidence of natural selection and our existence being a result of evolution. This theory has implications that most will find incomprehensible and to fully appreciate these implications you have go back in time to what is known as the cambrian explosion, some 530 million years ago. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosionWhat is very important to remember is that the sponge is one, if not the only one, of the multicellular animals that existed before this era, and therefore the possibility exists that if what I contend about the sponge is true then it alone could be solely responsible for what took place in this era, that being the rapid appearance of most major groups of complex animals. So yes, in the sense that what I am proposing is that the sponge is a manipulator of life, the term "god-level" may be appropriate. Please take note that I did not say a "creator" of life, only a "manipulator" of existing life forms.
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