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Post by toni on May 20, 2009 7:20:07 GMT -5
Gertie, I sure can relate. I too get thinking everything anyone has must be connected to Morgs. (cause it sure seems like it). And if one doesn't question something, we'd not understand anything. And you're certainly not seeing things. I think us all sharing pics and experiences no matter what, IS how answers will come.
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Post by ibzahp on May 20, 2009 15:29:43 GMT -5
I wonder what percentage of us here on the board have either passed on or now have a terminal illness after having Morgellons? What is the average number of years those that have died have had Morgellons? It would be helpful to have a better idea of what we can expect till we can treat or cure this thing. Its very strange isn't it? I worry too that in the later stages things sometimes change and some of us may not have as much external skin condition stuff (of course others do also) but as time passes what exactly is going on with us internally? I don't think this is a disorder that should be ignored just because certain symptoms stop manifesting. Does that make sense anyone? If agrobacterium is a major player in the illness as well as worms or other things well clearly the cancer risk is large with the horizontal gene transfer.
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Post by violet on May 20, 2009 16:14:52 GMT -5
I wonder what percentage of us here on the board have either passed on or now have a terminal illness after having Morgellons? What is the average number of years those that have died have had Morgellons? It would be helpful to have a better idea of what we can expect till we can treat or cure this thing. Its very strange isn't it? I worry too that in the later stages things sometimes change and some of us may not have as much external skin condition stuff (of course others do also) but as time passes what exactly is going on with us internally? I don't think this is a disorder that should be ignored just because certain symptoms stop manifesting. Does that make sense anyone? If agrobacterium is a major player in the illness as well as worms or other things well clearly the cancer risk is large with the horizontal gene transfer. You've certainly voiced a concern I have, too, Ibzahp. I like your idea of trying to compile a listing. I personally already have a predisposing condition that sometimes leads to leukemia, so I'm sort of just figuring that now with Morgellons in the mix, that may be what will happen to me in the future (unless I die in a car accident first, since I'm so absent-minded and distracted majorly when I drive!). :0)
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Post by toni on May 20, 2009 19:36:17 GMT -5
Ibzahp,
I sure think that's a great question and thoughts, and something we should keep close attention too also, because all of us with Morgellons (don't want to say anything to upset anyone), but it's looking bad, if this stuff gets too out of control....like once it hits a threshold, there's no turning it around. Or like you said, what IS it really doing, and what are are cells really going though...
Is Morgs causing a bombardment of free radicals? If so...which it's looking like it, we need to really pay attention to taking antioxidants, because I personally don't know any other way to protect our cells from free radicals, and Morgs is like letting them loose.
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Post by bannanny on May 20, 2009 20:00:18 GMT -5
As much as I hate to say it, I don't see how it can't be doin an awful lot of damage to us internally. I mean, we can even feel the stuff moving around inside of us at times. I know what the goo does to my hands and feet on the outside. So I imagine our insides are getting bogged down with it too... making the normal flow of things a very difficult task. I would think it's filling us up on the inside tho, as well as the outside with everything it produces. I dunno, but I can see how it could eventually stop things from working properly by merely clogging things up if nothing else.
Boy, if that isn't a sh*t load of negativity I don't know what is... sorry guys. I just sometimes feel like this mess is taking everything over, inside and out.
hugs ~~ bannanny
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Post by ctbarb on May 20, 2009 22:03:55 GMT -5
Bananny and All, I totally agree with the fact that it's having an effect on our organs...in fact, you can see mine! I have a moving "lump" at least 5" across and 3+" wide with a tail, it is raised about 1/2" throughout....that moves from just under the center of the breastbone and around under the breast, the arm and into the back, just under the shoulderblade! This mass does move, you can feel it clearly vibrate, it's firm, yet feels like very thick Jell-O...it can move from the front to the back in a matter of one hour! My husband and I have watched it...while it is moving, there is considerable chest pain, tonight you can see at least 7 "pin-like" objects pushing against my abdominal skin, and it stings and gets hot. When this happens, I get flushed, with a cold sweat...and it comes and goes for about an hour or so, then the chattering chills follow and severe abdominal pain and diarrhea. I'm now waiting for the chills to come. Under any normal set of circumstances, one would think that anyone looking at a moving mass under the human skin, would realize that it is INSANE THAT DOCTORS CAN'T/WON'T ADMIT THAT THEY SEE IT! They won't even touch the area! Now what does that tell you??? Afraid of getting something??? To let this happen to a human being and to do nothing to find the cause or help, is a crime against humanity! It is also against the Hippocratic Oath or should I rephrase that? Hippocri tic Oath? Just one letter changes everything....... I agree with those folks who believe that there is much more here than meets the eye of the casual observer...for at least 2 people who have documented identical specimens here, should cause alarm! More than 2 should cause considerable attention of the CDC, and more than 4+ should get the attention of medical facilities throughout the nation! This is NOT a coincidence, the folks who have this do not even know each other, do not live in the same environmental area, do not live the same lifestyles, and very possibly do not even eat the same dietary foods! So, logically, since I know that some of my samples that were tested at a university microbiological lab by experts with 40+ years and hundreds of published papers doing the testing, when the DNA stains do not work, over and over again, something is clearly amiss! The samples looked exactly like what they were supposed to be, however, they were not normal...they were "modified" in some way or another! Genetically modified is more to the point! Some of the samples presented could not even be identified by any of the 5 experts who witnessed the testing...now there IS something wrong with that! These experts are highly qualified individuals in various areas of microbiology, parasitology, genetics, bio-genetics, etc, all with advanced degrees and positions of authority to make such diagnoses. Something smells, and it's not just my specimens!!! Respectfully, ctbarb
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Post by bannanny on May 20, 2009 23:13:11 GMT -5
Yeah, it sure does barb... and I'm gettin sick of the smell.
But I just wanna tell you again how sorry I am that you're experiencing all these terrible things. The depths of the horrors this nightmare can bring about just blow me away... and we all seem to experience them in one form or another. I can't even begin to imagine what having something that large inside of you moving around must be like tho. It really makes my heart hurt for you.
Did any of the experts who witnessed the testing of your samples have anything to say, other than they couldn't identify them? Any suggestions about where to go from there... or anything at all? I can't believe people like that could just simply let go of something so very curious. I know if I were in their shoes, I'd be insane trying to find some answers. I couldn't just let something like that go right on by me, could you? That's supposedly what people with their education are made up of ya know?
I've always been under the impression that scientific minds won't stop trying until they figure something out. Especially when it's something as bizarre as morgellons. But I guess I was wrong. Maybe this whole mess is so beyond anything that's ever been imagined, we're never gonna find someone with the guts to carry on with any further testing. I hope that's not the case... but the way it's been goin, it wouldn't surprise me if they just left us behind in the dust.
hugs ~~ bannanny
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Post by ctbarb on May 20, 2009 23:43:49 GMT -5
Thanks Bananny for your comments too. The experts at the university were so busy, and I was only scheduled for one hour of the professor's time, but it got so interesting to them, they called other experts in to see what was happening! I was with them for more than 3 1/2 hours! They cancelled appointments and meetings, and that's a rarity!!! The head of the department was there too, and she stayed the entire time...they said that was unusual. She was the person who told me to keep looking, and that we'd find it! She said not to give up!!! She said that it was folks like us that would find out what this disease is all about...not the professionals. Universities are notorius for only using their allotted time for structured research...no money, no research. These folks did a lot of research for me on their own time...and it was very generous, and I'm very appreciative. I think they've backed off because they are in the MA university system (Harvard, MIT, Tufts, BU etc.) and it just may be that there is an ongoing investigation already funded... That's just my gut feeling...what with MRF funding research in MA too. Too bad they don't actually have a live body to get fresh samples from..... ?? I'm just less than 2 hours from Boston for heaven's sake! I guess they don't want live specimens....only dead ones... In that case, they'll be getting mine soon enough! I've already sent in the paperwork for a full body donation to Harvard Med, BU Med, Tufts, or UMASS Med School for medical research of rare diseases...they will accept me only if I'm not infectious!!! So what about those who are but don't know it? I'd think the formaldehyde would kill most anything anyway? We shall see....or my family will. Let's not dwell on the negative...(slap me up) ;D I've got to hit the porcelain throne again...so it's good night to all! Love & hugs, ctbarb
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Post by freaky on May 21, 2009 0:18:10 GMT -5
If you insist ctbarb. My daughter may be pregnant. My grandma name is going to be Sparkles.
Debbie Downer will rise above.
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Post by toni on May 21, 2009 8:02:41 GMT -5
Barb said:
I totally agree with the fact that it's having an effect on our organs...in fact, you can see mine!
I have a moving "lump" at least 5" across and 3+" wide with a tail, it is raised about 1/2" throughout....that moves from just under the center of the breastbone and around under the breast, the arm and into the back, just under the shoulderblade!
This mass does move, you can feel it clearly vibrate, it's firm, yet feels like very thick Jell-O...it can move from the front to the back in a matter of one hour!
Toni says: OMG YES, YES AND YES!!!!
That is exactly what I had 2-3 years ago going on. Not sure if you'd read about that Barb, here on the board.
I had a moving LUMP...that was right under my left breast (in the fold/crease) underneath....and that pea size LUMP would move from one side of my breast to the other in about a 1-2 hour time...
THEEEEEEN I got it OUT! I still have it in a vial...which I posted pics too.
It doesn't look like much but a hunk of white waxy material.
But every night it moved about 5" from side to side right under my skin (under my breast).
I wish I could find the posts, because that's where I explained how I got it out.
I'll explain now.
Everyday, I took a very warm plug in heating pad, and put that on that area. After the heating pad treatment, I'd then go sit in the bath tub (with out the plug in the tub) to let the hot water flow freely...and I took a rag, and just kept applying the HOT compress on that lump.
They HATE that heat.
It finally stopped moving, and that lump swelled up more.
I took a needle as to pop it, but the skin split "underneath" the breast (where the scar is from (implants) is where this sucker was roaming back and forth on) and the skin separated about the size of a pencil eraser diameter.
Then I squeezed both sides (on the outside of the lump) like one squeezing a pimple.
That HUNK/CHUNK/the MOVING LUMP...physically shot out of me!
Yes, it shot out, and because I was sitting with my knees up, it hit me in the thigh. (and I got it).
I then went to emergency, and they did a culture.
The doctor and assistant said ( I got it all out ). And then put guaze taped on the "wound".
I was very quiet about Morgs, and wanted to see what they'd say.
A couple days later, they called and said the "test for staph" was negative.
( that is when I read about moving lumps) and Spirometra (sparganosis) was ALL I could find that has moving lumps/cysts like that.
Which that too is still a wonderment in my mind...
Sparganosis? It's a tape that not much is known about it. And it too looks similar to much of our "specimens" also.
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Post by jeany on May 21, 2009 9:28:27 GMT -5
Sparganosis en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparganosis.......Sparganosis is a parasitic infection caused by the plerocercoid larvae of diphyllobothroid tapeworms belonging to the genus Spirometra.[1]. First described by Manson in 1882, the infection is transmitted by ingestion of contaminated water, ingestion of a second intermediate host such as a frog or snake, or contact between a second intermediate host and an open wound or mucus membrane[2][3]. Humans are the accidental hosts in the life cycle, while dogs, cats, and other mammals are definitive hosts. Copepods (freshwater crustaceans) are the first intermediate hosts, and various amphibians and reptiles are second intermediate hosts[4]. ....Once a human becomes infected, the plerocercoid larvae migrate to a subcutaneous location, where they typically develop into a painful nodule[5]. Migration to the brain results in cerebral sparganosis, while migration to the eyes results in ocular sparganosis.... ......Clinical presentation of sparganosis most often occurs after the larvae have migrated to a subcutaneous location. The destination of the larvae is often a tissue or muscle in the chest, abdominal wall, extremities, or scrotum, although other sites include the eyes, brain, urinary tract, pleura, peridcardium, and spinal canal. The early stages of disease in humans are often asymptomatic, but the spargana typically cause a painful inflammatory reaction in the tissues surrounding the subcutaneous site as they grow. Discrete subcutaneous nodules develop that may appear and disappear over a period of time. The nodules usually itch, swell, turn red, and migrate, and are often accompanied by painful edema.... ......The parasite is transmitted to humans in three different ways. First, humans may acquire the infection by drinking water that is contaminated with copepods housing Spirometra larvae[2]. Second, humans may acquire the infection by consuming the raw flesh of one of the second intermediate hosts, such as frogs or snakes[4]. For example, humans consume raw snakes or tadpoles for medicinal purposes in some Asian cultures; if the snakes or tadpoles are infected, the larvae may be transmitted to humans. Third, humans may acquire the infection by placing raw poultices of the second intermediate hosts on open wounds, lesions, and/or the eyes for medicinal or ritualistic reasons. If the poultice is infected with plerocercoid larvae, the human also may become infected[1][6]. According to Zunt et al., human infection most often occurs following ingestion of infected raw snake, frog, or pig, although contact with infected flesh of an intermediate host can also cause infection. In the Western hemisphere, the most common cause of infection is drinking contaminated water[6 ......The incubation period of Spirometra is 20 days to 3 years.. ......The sparganum larvae are white, wrinkled, and ribbon-shaped. They range from a few millimeters in length to several centimenters... Jeany
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Post by toni on May 21, 2009 9:58:52 GMT -5
That's them Jeany, thank you for posting the info on those suckers.
To date (I've not yet found anything) that causes a moving lump other than this parasite.
Not that I'm saying (this is it ) but...what I am saying is:
This is the ONLY thing I've read in 4 years of reading, that does have moving lumps (as we've described).
Other than "this parasite"....I wouldn't know what other kinds of lumps move.
Thanks Jeany for posting the info on these.
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Post by massena on May 21, 2009 17:28:49 GMT -5
hello all, ctbarb, here's of few of photos that I thought looked like snails/slugs the first one came from my nose and it's 60x Oh and toni I forgot to put the penny by it to compare size.... I know that helps. I even thought I had flukes at the on set of all this but at this point not to sure what I have , I just know it's not normal massena
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Post by massena on May 21, 2009 17:32:58 GMT -5
this one I thought looked more like a worm/slug It seems like it's more formed into a parasite.
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Post by massena on May 21, 2009 17:35:53 GMT -5
from my nose
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Post by massena on May 21, 2009 17:45:47 GMT -5
this one looks longer and more like a worm I have more in my gallery but I'm sure you have seen enough for now Just wanted to let ctbarb know I kind of get the same things but maybe not as big ...yet! GREAT PHOTOS from everyone here and great research ,I have noticed that you can rehydrate these guys by putting a little water on them, just like what toni's post said that you can do to snails/slugs. massena
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Post by ctbarb on May 21, 2009 20:30:38 GMT -5
Hi Messina and All, I hate to say it, but they do look allot like my snail/slug pix...the first one (White) appears to be folded, was it? Or is it just the angle that the photo was taken? Both #2 and #3, look similar and are upsidedown IMO...they glide on those wavy edges. In the case of a snail, they usually glide along on the foot, lubricated with their slime. Have you seen anything that's looks like a white, wrinkled ribbon? I have them in my nose, I cough them up, and find them folded in my urine at times. Those are the larva from the Sparganum...I know we've all seen those here in the past. Those come out of me all day long! But the most recognizable one is the last one in Jeany's series of pix above...the adult larva. I've seen those for a very long time and thought they were Schistosoma mansoni...they are remarkably similar in color, shape, and texture. I bet they're first cousins! I sure do hope we get a definitive answer on this group! They are nothing to mess around with... Hugs, ctbarb
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Post by toni on May 21, 2009 20:45:03 GMT -5
Those are great pics Massena.
The one picture there you have (to me too looks like a small wormish thing).
But the other pictures, I have to say like Barb, I too thought OMG those ones look like slugs to me too.
And Barb, this is sooooo weird. At the beginning (when I first came aboard) I was more than hung up on the S. Mansoni! Then I saw that Spirometra, and thought...hummm I wonder cause we can't seem to kill whatever it is we have. And that is so indicative of Spirometra (no treatment) that's really successful.
But...seeing all these pics here, (they sure do look like slugs AND worms) and that one of yours Barb (with the matching pattern) on the skin, like the slugs skin....(imho) it's looking like we might have a borrage of many different kinds? UGH.
You know...I want to say this now and then which many may not have seen this post (before) but maybe just as a maybe there IS something to it) but a couple of years ago, Dr. Karjoo told me there were 3 different "critters" involved with Morgellons.
And depending on what part of the country one lived, was a determining factor of which "critter" we'd have. Maybe we have ALL 3 - but I don't know and he didn't say that part about one person having 3 kinds at once...that is PURE guessing at what he might have meant. Cause I only know "exactly" what he said...and that was there ARE 3 critters involved in Morgellons.
Now...that could be correct, and maybe something new has progressed since when he DID say: there ARE three involved. So I don't hold him to that, but he did say it, and well...there's a (reason) he said it. Had to be something to it, I'd think.
So I want to share that, because that (might) have a bearing on why we see different (critter things) too.
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Post by massena on May 22, 2009 14:02:14 GMT -5
Hello girls , thanks for your feedback on the photos
ctbarb, do you have a photo of the ribbon looking thing ...are those the ones you find in your hair? Also I checked this thread and I don't think I seen Jeany's photo , I might have over looked it but I really wanted to see it.
The strange thing is that my nose runs a lot and it's a clear fluid....I think they call it post nasal drip yea right!!! Well anyway I looked in my nose and I have a small hole (like the size of a pen head) and I have one on each side.........well I'm pretty sure that's where the fluid is coming from. I have a little bump on the outside of my nose on the same side the hole is on, sometimes the goo turns to like a hard plastic, also at times my saliva is thick and sticky ...reminds me of snail juice.
I drink a lot of lemon juice but I guess my ph must be out of whack.
Can a snail/slug do all this to us , living inside us and reproducing just TONS of these things? Does the female snail/slug even need a male to produce eggs? How many eggs can they produce in a life time. I think this stuff can live in dry conditions also but they are dormant until they hit some kind of moisture . I know something is leaving trails all over my body.
This is a very interesting thread. Sure gives me something to ponder on. hugs massena
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Post by ctbarb on May 22, 2009 15:00:26 GMT -5
Hi Massena, Yes, they do reproduce and can individually...they have both sexes, and they reproduce together too. They have the best of all worlds! I too have holes in my nasal passages where these buggers like to hide...and there is a corresponding lesion on the outside of the nose that is a red dot, but larger. I have literally pulled out the white wormy things (larva) or they just come waltzing out on their own! They are about 1"+ in length, and are not straight, but rather have wrinkles when unfolding...sometimes they are folded and look like squares. The mature adult larva is the one that looks amazingly similar to the Schistosoma mansoni worm...check out the last photo in the line of pictures on Jeany's response. Those are the ones that also come from my nose and that I cough up all the time. Today, I have had a headache.....then the reason became very apparent: two converging tunnels from the scalp outer edges to the bridge of my nose are very apparent! I can feel movement in my scalp (I currently have about 50 lesions in my scalp) and down into the tunnels. So, no doubt, they are in my head too. I attribute this more to Sparganosis now that I have a name for it, and can see the exact formations in my sputum. It is fascinating to watch the development of these creatures right before your eyes! I just wish they weren't mine!!! My mucus is very thick, grainy, and thready feeling. When it dries, it's hard like plastic or glass. You can't remove it even with a razor blade. This stuff is very strong and adheres to anything! I wonder what the tensile strength is for this stuff? It would have to be way up there! It can stretch on forever. Sorry that you are going through this too Massena, I know it's not pleasant, but until we find some answers, we will have to live with it. Do you have any moveable nodules anywhere on your body? If so, take a pen and make a mark where it is now, then check it a few hours later and see if it moves. If it does, you have an answer - it's Sparganosis. Let me know how I can help in any way...you gals are all awesome! Love, ctbarb
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