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Post by glitterbug on Apr 11, 2006 15:32:16 GMT -5
Hi Ms Carrie, that was a good post. I think am sorta of lost here. Did I miss something also? Not asthma, bronchitis runs in my family and this stuff made it much worse. It comes with this illness I guess. So where are we? I kinda forgot where we were. As always, London and skytroll come save the day and start looking at possibles again. I hope you guys feel better soon. Just keep on going Carrie, you express yourself very well, good reading. Just continue on and I'll try to keep up. You guys are fast. It's a good thing!
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linda
New Member
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Post by linda on Apr 11, 2006 15:42:26 GMT -5
Carrie, love ya too, truly I do. I don't think you're nonsensical, but I might have if I never had Morgellons. I might also be saying something like "what? worms in the body? no way." I obviously can't say that anymore now can I? People who haven't walked in our shoes just don't get it. I have Hulda Clark's book. I have found that by treating this disease as if it were parasitical, I see results. Still, I don't claim to know what it is, and I've given up trying to figure this out. It is out of the scope of what I have the time or energy to learn right now. All I can claim to know is that it is not a delusion, and it will only get worse. I listen to the theories, all of them, but I know that the "observers" and "another observers" as well as the multitude of "guests" see our board and our theories as validation that we are all crazy. Oh how I'd love to infect them, especially Thunderations. Oopps, sorry Thunderations--your devil made me say that. I think Thunderations is a perfect example of how "normal" or "sane" is an illusion since he/she seems to think his/her behavior is normal (?). These days my focus is on maintaining a healthy body and a healthy mind. Sometimes I actually think the fibers and crap are a result of us winning the battle; our bodies excrete some dead substance. It is difficult not to speculate. If we don't know what we are fighting, how can we know how to fight?
Take Care, Linda
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Post by a new on Apr 11, 2006 16:05:55 GMT -5
I just think the govt is sending out their debunkers before this thing gets into the media. DO NOT LISTEN TO THEM. STAND YOUR GROUND. DO NOT EVEN RESPOND TO THESE PEOPLE. THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO.
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Post by Carrie♥ on Apr 11, 2006 16:29:48 GMT -5
Glitterbug, Linda, new...thanks. Sorry if I appeared to be going off...really I'm not or wasn't but I can see how it'd appear that way. Linda you are so right though...no one believes a word I tell them...unless they have this disease...and then even then, they doubt so much of the factual information that is presented to them. Just like it'd appear that I may be "non·sen·si·cal." 1. Lacking intelligible meaning: a nonsensical jumble of words. 2. Foolish; absurd: nonsensical ideas. At one point...I even felt that could be the case...until I saw Dr. Schwartz. They can say whatever they want about that man. He had been a very reputable doctor in this country for thirty five years. He told my daughter...I was a scientific researcher genius...and that instead of the shame that we have been feeling for these last couple years at the hands of the people whom claim to love us and the people that claim they are there to help us...that she should be proud of her Mother. Now...I am confident enough to know that non·sen·si·cal is something I am not. I'm a logical person, I recognize that Dr. Schwartz was being sweet with us and especially my child...he wasn't being sweet when we sat across the table from eachother, for hours at a time, several days in a row, discussing our theories. He thought at times that I was nonsensical...I brought it up on here before. I told him how my daughters toe and toenails resembled clubbing as documented in a whipworm infection. That was when he told me to keep it simple for myself and stick to one parasite and that the one parasite could be causing the multitude of effects. Then I mentioned on here as well that he was surprised to find the CDC has been aware of all these nonsensical ideas all along !
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Post by skytroll on Apr 11, 2006 17:35:15 GMT -5
We know who our heroes are, don't we Carrie?
GO Carrie, GO!
Love ya,
Skytroll
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Post by I need a hero on Apr 12, 2006 1:09:41 GMT -5
You're the hero Skytroll.
Dr. Wymore is the hero too...all that work...overtime...time away from family...for a bunch of DOPers...doubt it...if DOP was the final destination...he'd not be around right!?
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Post by B Ross on Apr 12, 2006 16:26:11 GMT -5
Guest-Guest: Thank you for your input. I learned from what you wrote and also bookmarked your first link on blood tests. I personally welcome your help.
I was recently diagnosed paragonimus westernammi (lung fluke). That is making me a bit nervous. Yesterday I was falling apart when I learned that the $1550 remedy I purchased may indeed be "snake Oil". There are few parasiiologists in the USA. I don't know where to go for help or even to get an accurate double check on the original stool test. Since this is a rare parasite, how many labs would even be able to pronounce the word, let alone find it? Do you have any suggestions for me?
Next comment relating back to the discussion of eczema and asthma: Are you saying that Asthma is necessarily related to a genetic weakness? I've never had any previous skin issues yet I did have a diagnosis of some asthma /emphysema as smoking related. It would then seem to me that chemicals can trigger asthma (Hulda Clark's theory that all disease has to main causes , one of which is pollutants).
In relationship to the article you posted, could it be that the Morgellons symptoms perpetuate and escalate due to (1) an original invasion of the skin i.e. in my case possible Norwegian scabies mites from someone very ill. (2) The skin is overwhelmed in its ability to respond protectively. (3) The immune system gets into the act. Evidently it can't fully protect the infested person (maybe it has been previously weakened) and the infestation continues on to bloodstream and organs.
Could you please comment, Guest, on my questions and suggested theory? Thanks a bunch. By the way, are you a medical doctor, nurse, researcher--or just an interested and helpful party. Sincerely, Betsy
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Post by Carrie♥ on May 16, 2006 20:05:49 GMT -5
1: Am J Epidemiol. 1994 Nov 1;140(9):839-47. Related Articles, Links
Toxocara seroprevalence in 5-year-old elementary schoolchildren: relation with allergic asthma.
Buijs J, Borsboom G, van Gemund JJ, Hazebroek A, van Dongen PA, van Knapen F, Neijens HJ.
National Institute of Public Health and Environmental Protection, Laboratory for Parasitology and Mycology, Bilthoven, The Netherlands.
Toxocara seroprevalence and the relation between Toxocara seroprevalence and allergic asthma were investigated in Dutch schoolchildren aged 4-6 years. Data on Toxocara antibodies, allergen-specific immunoglobulin E, allergic manifestations, and risk factors (pets and playgrounds) were obtained from 235 children from The Hague and 477 from Rotterdam, the Netherlands. The surveys were carried out from September 1987 to January 1988 in The Hague and in March and April 1989 in Rotterdam. Logistic regression was used to evaluate putative relations. Toxocara seroprevalence was higher in The Hague (11%) than in Rotterdam (6%), but this difference was not quite significant. Seroprevalences varied widely among schools. No differences between socioeconomic categories or between the sexes were found. Occurrences of asthma/recurrent bronchitis and hospitalization due to asthma/recurrent bronchitis were significantly associated with seroprevalence. Furthermore, a marginally significant relation with eczema was found. Immunoglobulin E specific for inhaled allergens occurred significantly more often in the Toxocara-seropositive group. The risk factors investigated were not related to seroprevalence. It is suggested that Toxocara, among other environmental factors, may stimulate polyclonally immunoglobulin E production, including allergen-specific immunoglobulin E, and thus may contribute to the manifestation of allergic asthma and possibly of eczema in children predisposed to allergy.
PMID: 7977294 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Post by Carrie♥ on May 16, 2006 20:06:56 GMT -5
Flukes...can't access the article but the article does exist.
1: Int J Dermatol. 1990 Jan-Feb;29(1):73-4. Related Articles, Links
Onchocerciasis: an unusual presentation as eczema.
al-Khawajah MM, Siddiqui MA.
PMID: 2329030 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Post by Carrie♥ on May 16, 2006 20:09:04 GMT -5
The muscle invading, acne causing worm.
1: Dermatol Monatsschr. 1978 Dec;164(12):878-81. Related Articles, Links
[Microbial eczema due to the human Trichuris trichiura]
Muller G, Zabel R.
PMID: 738499 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Post by guest little g on May 22, 2006 4:44:50 GMT -5
Guest Guest made a very intelligent post about a commonly misunderstood subject. Somehow, attention was diverted away from the original post. That happens a lot.
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Post by aherah on May 22, 2006 11:26:34 GMT -5
Are you bored again little g? You've not yet told us why you bother? I'll roll up my sleeves and play awhile. Still, I'd prefer an adult discussion. I don't care if you are a believer; I'd just like to borrow what you know. I don't want to waste my time playing games now thunderations (or one of his/her many incarnations), and there is nothing you can say that will bother me . But if you start that defensive s h i t again, I'll just wait for a naysayer who can stay the course. I also don't have eczema or asthma. I'm not even a very allergic person, and yet I am haunted by this allergic condition to some unknown pathogen. What if it isn't a pathogen? What if what we are experiencing with the fibers, sand, gelatinous stuff is an immune response? I wonder about that, but it wouldn't explain how my husband would have the same response. It looks infectious. But I do believe some people's bodies fight it better than others; in that may lie the genetic component. Morgellons may be some minor, easily destroyed infection to most, but not to us.
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Post by little g on May 22, 2006 16:02:43 GMT -5
Aherah,
Thank you for your comment. You may not have eczema, but their may be other readers out there that do.
little g
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Post by aherah on May 22, 2006 16:54:37 GMT -5
Ok little g, many of us have been diagnosed with eczema, among other things. What is the relationship to Morgellons? What are you implying? I can believe that their are skin immunity issues. I can believe that there is a genetic component to Morgellons, but since I and many others with Morgellons don't have eczema or asthma, I am unclear here what you are hinting at. Do you think Morgellons is caused by the same genetic problem that may be causing eczema? Do you think "the callus" referred to by Cliff Michelson is actually eczema with delusional fibers? Please clarify.
This may be my error for not wanting to read the whole thread, in which case, I apologize ahead of time. At least were talking about the original topic though.
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go ahead delete assistance
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Post by go ahead delete assistance on May 22, 2006 17:13:39 GMT -5
1. "I'm not even a very allergic person, and yet I am haunted by this allergic condition to some unknown pathogen. What if it isn't a pathogen? What if what we are experiencing with the fibers, sand, gelatinous stuff is an immune response? I wonder about that, but it wouldn't explain how my husband would have the same response. It looks infectious. But I do believe some people's bodies fight it better than others; in that may lie the genetic component."
-- One thing that a person is allergic to is all that it takes. I don't know what "I'm not even a very allergic person" means to you, because that is a luducrous statement. --
2. "Your two-year old son has some sort of strange rash on his chest. The doctor says it is contact dermatitis. It doesn't go away. Then the doctor says it is ringworm, only now this "ringworm" is covering the entire torso of your child who has begun to behave in a spastic manner. When playing shirtless in the backyard you notice these red/blueish raised patches of skin that sparkle in the sun. Weird, you think, but you make no connection to your own skin disorder. Then, at the same age as your first son, your second son, who has some sort of language delay, stops eating dinner, and most foods. He says, "I can't feel good" often. You take him to his doctor who checks for parasites in his stool. Nothing is found; case closed for the doctor. Your son continues to have black diarrhea, a pallor face, and lethargy. Believing that he might have some sort of food allergy, you give him enzymes made for kids. That night he has an allergic reaction, breaking out in hives all over his little body. Two days later, he has a rash on his back. He wakes you up at three in the morning to scratch his back. You apply oil on his skin that you don't further damage it when you notice that he has fibers coming out of his skin too. Later he keeps changing his shirts because, according to him, there are bugs in his shirt. You assure him that is not the case. Then he tells you that there are bugs in his body. You share this with his doctor who decides that you are the one with the issues. "Assertive" is viewed as "crazy." In the meantime, both you and your eleven month old baby daughter have also broken out with fibery rashes. The baby attempts to realize her itchiness by rubbing her back on the carpet like a flea infested dog. You ask yourself over and over again, "how can this be happening?" You feel so desperate, yet you've grown wary of doctors who seem to be twisting what you say to justify a diagnosis of delusional. You stop going to them because, although you are incredibly concerned about the health of your children, you are even more concerned that the doctors may build a case to have your children put into protective custody."
-- I advise seeing a doctor without being in panic mode. Listen to what they say, and treat for allergies. Work with them. Allergy treatment does not "fix" anything overnight, and is ongoing, with constant back-and-forth communication with the doctor. Get your middle child to eat something besides processed cereal.--
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Post by little g on May 22, 2006 17:29:03 GMT -5
Please don't expect my opinions on Cliff Mickelson to be broadcast here. I suggest you stop saturating yourself with oil. Do not do that to your children. You are interferring with skin functioning properties, making it more receptive to outside attacks from things you are allergic to and fibres attache to it more readily because of it.
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Post by aherah on May 22, 2006 18:04:10 GMT -5
Guest, you just can't seem to escape your need to patronize now can you? Yes, we are all having an immune (allergic) response to something. Initially, I thought it was allergies (read books about the relation between ADHD and allergies). The doctors couldn't find what we are allergic to. They concluded that there was not enough of an allergic issue to be concerned, and yet we continue to have all of these allergic-like symptoms. They gave up.
When I tell you that I am not an allergic person, I am telling you that I don't suffer with nasal congestion and other typical allergy-related issues that I see so many of my neighbors suffer from, hence, I am not an allergic person as they are. But yes, I am allergic to whatever Morgellons is, as are my kids. It's such a shame there is no scratch test or blood test for that, isn't it?
I don't mind if you take notes about what I say. We apparently don't agree on the definitions of all words, as we don't agree on what has caused the variety of aliments that my children and I have experienced. I'm sure I wouldn't be the first person to say that you come across as an ass. I'd place my money on it. Yet I wonder, why do you need to? Do you live with some sort of inferiority complex that has pushed you to come to this board equipped with a modicum of medical knowledge used to "enlighten" us of our craziness? WHY DO YOU CARE? It's unfortunate that as hard as you try, you have convinced no one on this board of their alleged insanity, whereas we all wonder what is your incentive to try so hard. Where's the gold pot at the end of the rainbow? What is in it for you? My God, you are such the nutjob you speak of. You, sir, need to get a life, and stop doing any further damage to what little you have left of your karma.
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Post by aherah on May 22, 2006 18:15:34 GMT -5
Please don't expect my opinions on Cliff Mickelson to be broadcast here. I suggest you stop saturating yourself with oil. Do not do that to your children. You are interferring with skin functioning properties, making it more receptive to outside attacks from things you are allergic to and fibres attache to it more readily because of it. Interesting how you only remember what I say when it suits your purpose. The oil came after the fibers. I believe it has prevented the lesions (don't have them). We are all doing much better than a year ago, oil and all. You've also apparently missed when I explained that I do not go to the doctor panicked at all. Initially, I was panicked which, under the circumstances that you neither understand nor believe, was warranted. These days I have no reason to be panicked as I have accepted the worse case scenario. I have no expectations of my doctors anymore.
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bottom line from little g
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Post by bottom line from little g on May 22, 2006 18:19:55 GMT -5
If you want relief from conditions that plague you...then learn. If you don't...that is fine with the rest of the world. Your white blood cells... Your granules... www.heumann.org/body.of.knowledge/f2/page7.html Not that it applies to you, Aherha, but, for some... "Psychiatrist Alistair Munro, author of one of the only books to specifically address delusional disorder, notes that patients with delusional parasitosis may dig into their flesh and retrieve small fibres - most likely to be the ends of peripheral nerves that form a network under the surface of the skin. Other fibres such as trapped hairs, or even keratin, a fibrous protein recently found to be a component of normal human skin, might be found by those examining skin lesions in detail and used as evidence for a Morgellons-like infection." Well wishes for success in your endeavors
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Post by little g on May 22, 2006 18:22:12 GMT -5
So sorry.
"You apply oil on his skin that you don't further damage it when you notice that he has fibers coming out of his skin too. Later he keeps changing his shirts because, according to him, there are bugs in his shirt. You assure him that is not the case. Then he tells you that there are bugs in his body. You share this with his doctor who decides that you are the one with the issues."
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